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Schneider Trophy Cook up? (Read 28536 times)
Reply #468 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 9:56pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

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LWM, when my mom was born, the Supermarine S6B was the fastest thing (short of a bullet) on Earth- and it looked the part!
 
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Reply #467 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 9:32pm

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
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Hello Craig :
     You know, there seems to be an elegant grandeur in the proportional framework symmetry in those early seaplanes.   Cool    With those two whopping floats, as big as the fuselage, they just look so powerful in their bare assembled skeletons!   Shocked   Great pics Craig!   Smiley
LWM
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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Reply #466 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:16pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
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Thank you! The way it's rained here this summer, I might need to study waterproofing the floats!
 
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Reply #465 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 7:05pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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WoW...great looking bones.  You'll have a real flyer on your hands there.  Nice job! Smiley
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #464 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 6:15pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
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It's finally starting to look like an aeroplane. Time to clean up the leftover kindling and make some more Berliner-Joyce wings while I figure out what sequence I'm going to use to cover/assemble this one... As it sits there, it's a portly 57.3 grams
 

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Reply #463 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 11:34am

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

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Thanks, Tom- That's good to know! I'm thinking maybe locking the ailerons into place, rather than hinging them. Any thoughts?
 
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Reply #462 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 10:56am

Sky9pilot   Offline
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It should fly fine with the airfoil you have on the plans.  One of the reasons you see lots of flatbottomed plans here in the U.S. I believe, is because of the rules in FAC (Flying Aces Club) that require a flat bottomed airfoil.  That's just my opinion.  Symmetrical or semi-symmetrical airfoil will fly in Free Flight it just might not be as efficient.
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #461 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 7:07am

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
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The thing is, while it's challenging, accurate, and pleasing to the eye (things I like), it's not a very good airfoil for free flight at this scale. I think I'll peg the wings on somehow, and build another set with a flat bottom, maybe a bit... Nah, who am I kidding. Cleveland said it would fly, and even ROW. If it won't, that'll be okay.
 
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Reply #460 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 5:42pm

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND
ENGINES AND TWO WINGS
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Posts: 403
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That wing DOES have a nice elliptical airfoil and nice internal support brackets.  I'm sure you won't blow the covering ... it will be as pretty as a spotted horse in a daisy pasture.   Wink
LWM
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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Reply #459 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 3:46pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
***
 
I'm adhering rigidly to the plan- there are LOTS of places to change things around to make a better flier out of it, but if I don't blow the covering, it sure should be pretty. These wing panels are pretty chunky. 40 sq in, 7.68g.
 

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Reply #458 - Aug 9th, 2017 at 12:59pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
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Thanks for the link to those trimming steps- Lord knows I need it! Now if I could just get my guy to quit mowing the yard everytime it stops raining (once every three weeks or so)!

I understand the importance of dihedral & proper incidence. On the latter, this S6B is in good shape- but as I said, I have my doubts as to how good a flier it would be under the best of circumstances (heavy, small wing, no Clark "Y", etc.) so I'm leaning towards at least getting the look as right as I can instead of building a model that's not too good in either department. I'll have the plans- later I may build a new set of "flying" appendages for it.
The front float struts are attached to a fuselage former, but the rears attach to the rear wing spar at compound angles- Moving everything around and keeping the geometry right is a project I don't thing I'm going to tackle for a model that might cough up a 30 second flight.
Just the fuselage, prop, and floats -bare- go nearly 38g. It only has 80 sq in of wing. Cleveland recommended 8-12 strands of 1/8" rubber. Fly? I'm not even sure it will float! (and this will be the one that surprises me  Wink
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2017 at 2:40pm by Craig 3 »  
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Reply #457 - Aug 9th, 2017 at 12:17pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Dihedral is necessary but remember you have two rather large floats hanging below the wing, acting a bit like a pendulum.  You could probably get away with less dihedral.  On a low wing model the ROT is wingtips at or just below the bottom edge of the cockpit. 

Your float plane will be able to get away with just a bit less dihedral.  I still like to use the ROT  even with the floats.  But trimming is still the same except as noted by Don the the tips of the floats.  You might want to have the tips of your floats up (positive incidence) to assist in trimming for flight.

You might want to check out the 10 steps trimming process by John Koptonak Click Here
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #456 - Aug 9th, 2017 at 10:26am

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND
ENGINES AND TWO WINGS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 403
****
 
Hi Craig - very well said ... my sentiments exactly.  At the very least, for a greater chance of flying, one MUST put in dihedral into the wings, even though it won't look scale.  I have a 28" Herr "Stearman PT-17" that I would love to actually fly with rubber, but I am finding out that it is a little bit beyond my skill level to trim out a bipe so far ...  Undecided
LWM
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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Reply #455 - Aug 9th, 2017 at 7:16am

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
***
 
In reality, on this build it probably won't be a big deal. Keep in mind, I've been into this for less than a year. It occurred to me while taking a shower that there were upsides and downsides to my choices for my first two (simultaneous) plans-builds. I like scale, and I like building, and I like challenges. The S6B and the Berliner Joyce are giving me that in spades. But I'm like a newborn babe when it comes to trimming and flying. A highly-staggered sesquiplane and a floatplane with NO dihedral (and   both with hinged control surfaces on scale airfoils) might be a little beyond my current skill set.
I'm looking at that Herr 30" J3 kit waiting patiently on the shelf and thinking that might be the first thing I get to fly!
And, as an aside- I've given a lot of thought to the dihedral on the Supermarine. This is a complex build (for me) to be doing just from a one-sheet plan. The scale-loving side of me thinks that the short, flat wings on these ac are an inherent part of their art-deco beauty. The lazy, inexperienced, side of me says I'm not ready to start redrawing the plan because EVERYTHING will change. And the pragmatic side of me tells me I'm probably going to spend more time looking at it than
flying it anyway Sad Wink Grin.
 
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Reply #454 - Aug 9th, 2017 at 6:49am

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 238
***
 
You're right, Tom. After a couple of days, it only gave up about .04 grams. I've learned to have enough balsa on hand to do the whole job before I start cutting, Getting 15%-ish shaved out of this already lightly-built float might be a chore.
 
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