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Here's A Challenge!! (Read 4782 times)
Reply #70 - May 19th, 2018 at 6:23pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 9936
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I agree with Neal...don't cut it down yet till you try trimming.  If it causes trouble, then consider trimming it down some.  Sometimes another option is to make a free flopping rudder that eliminates the too large vertical stab in performance!
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #69 - May 19th, 2018 at 6:04pm

Kerak   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 1591
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Told you it was a monstrous tail!  Wink  Don't tear it up...looks terrific as is!  Beautiful job, Alf.

I've got no room to talk...everything I build is overweight!  Loved your comment about running out into the dark...never heard anyone do that before!  Grin  Let me know when you find the key to building a weightless model.

Great model Alf...maybe it's just destined to look Great.  Isn't that enough?

Neal
 
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Reply #68 - May 19th, 2018 at 7:22am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
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Not yet ready for prime time!

Last night, I ran out into the dark screaming "the tail's too big, the tail's too big"!!

And indeed it is. So I ask myself, how did this happen? I did redo the plan vertical stabilizer because it wasn't exactly the shape of the real airplane. But clearly I did too much.

My plan now is to strip off the green tissue leaving the rudder as is. I may be able to essentially rebuild the leading edge to reduce the chord of the stabilizer. Also lop off a little from the top to reduce the height. We'll see.

No clue why I didn't see this sooner. Probably because I focused on the fuselage and tail separately. Lesson learned.

 
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Reply #67 - May 18th, 2018 at 8:07pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
Administrator
Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 9936
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alfakilo...the paint looks great.  Don't be afraid to post more than one pic!!!  We love to see them.
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #66 - May 18th, 2018 at 7:52pm

alfakilo   Offline
Senior Member
Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
****
 
Initial paint is on. I used Mission Models FS34102 and it turned out pretty much as the Internet photos showed. Next is to mount the landing gear and the final items, then print out the tissue decals.

I applied Krylon Clear. It's a bit shiny but really toughened up the tissue.
 
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Reply #65 - May 17th, 2018 at 9:54pm

Kerak   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 1591
****
 
Talking about gluing the inner ribs and stringers...I do that...my experience has been that if my tissue encounters difficulties, I don't need to remove the entire panel...only the section that's screwed up...if you see what I mean.  Same thing applies to covering the fuselage.  Most of my tissue wrinkles result from not getting good adhesion in a corner...stands to reason that if I can isolate that problem...there's less to remove and recover.  I'm sure you already know this.  Smiley

Neal
 
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Reply #64 - May 17th, 2018 at 9:29pm

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
****
 
Interesting video. I was surprised when he applied glue to the interior ribs and stringers of that wing. I have always been advised to glue only the exterior frame. Clearly, he knows what he is doing!

The D-500 is mostly covered. I had considered only painting the bottom light grey areas but now may do the topside green. The Internet references to this color named it FS34201. But when I looked at it on-line, the color looked wrong, more of a tan than a green. Most of the acrylic brands carried that color and they all looked similar. Much confusion until tonight. I happened to find a FS color that looked much better. Its code was 34102. Could it be a simple number error on the part of the person who made up that Internet page? Seems likely.

I was using an Elmers glue stick, the kind that allows reattaching for up to 5 minutes. It worked well for applying tissue to the balsa planking areas but remained sticky for quite a while, longer than other types of glue sticks.

 
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Reply #63 - May 16th, 2018 at 6:39pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 9936
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Some domestic tissue works well while others do not... I've used tissue from Hallmark stores that seems to work great.  I've also used tissue from the Dollar store that I've been able to apply dry...but when wet fell apart in my hands and on the model.  Easy Built's domestic tissue works well wet. They also sell Esaki.  I've used the Easy Built silver and had great result with it. 

I  use a hairspray pump bottle because it atomizes the alcohol/water mix very well and doesn't over wet the tissue.  My wife keeps the old bottles for me when she empties her hairspray.  I flush out with hot water and pump the bottle filled with hot water to flush the pump of all hairspray to keep it clear.  Ron Gosselin's covering video is very helpful if you haven't seen it...Click Here
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #62 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:55pm

alfakilo   Offline
Senior Member
Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
****
 
Almost done, still learning Esaki. I'm using these techniques:

1. Cut to shape. Attach dry using Elmers glue stick. Smooth out wrinkles as I can. Let dry (takes longer than I thought). Mist with water/alcohol to tighten. Trim tissue.

2. Cut to shape. Attach dry using glue stick. Then mist with water/alcohol and work out the wrinkles, etc. Let dry and trim.

3. Cut to shape. Apply thinned Elmers/Aileens Tacky Glue to frame. Mist tissue and put on wet. Smooth out tissue and let dry. Trim tissue.

I have a fair amount of wood to cover on the fuselage. Still looking for the best way to do this. Apply tissue with what? Dry or wet?
 
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Reply #61 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:56am

New Builder   Offline
Senior Member
Amherstburg, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 699
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AF - I had the same tearing problem with my tissue (I use domestic tissue also) until I redefined the term "wet". I mist it lightly on a towel then apply the glue to the frame. By then the tissue is starting to dry and lays down nicely. The wing tip is still an area of concern for me too.
Mike
 

Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it. (Salvador Dali 1904 - 1989)
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Reply #60 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:08am

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 1591
****
 
Actually Alf...doesn't look that translucent to me...in fact opacity is great!  I've got some domestic green (came from Christmas wrapping a number of years ago) that I've occasionally used...and it seems that wherever it touches wood...the bones show through bright and clean!  I'm not seeing that so much with your Esaki.  As for the "disintegration" at the wingtip...lesson there, I think...adjust your rubbing n' tugging to accommodate the particular tissue being used.  I believe Esaki is lighter weight than domestic tissue...there's a reason for that. Wink  Just take some small bits of tissue and apply it over those areas...tiny gentle sanding...and should be ok.

Looks to me as though you've got the wet tissue application process working well...you don't need my advice.  I really like the process itself...but it is a process...and I'm lazy now in my old age.  I still use the glue and brush, especially for areas that my glue stick can't reach the framework...can even lay the tissue down and apply the soup over the skin...soaks through to the wood...but not the best.  I've got one of those vinyl pill bottles filled with a diluted white glue solution...labled "Glue Soup."  Just need to make certain it's well mixed every time I use it.  I also use it to "paint" balsa parts sometimes...to give them some "backbone."  Bob here at SnT does the same thing...so must be an "accepted" trick. Smiley

And now...if you want to see some translucency...just wait until you apply dope to you model...then the bones will really become apparent.  Make certain the dope is well diluted...lest you create a banana of things.  Personally, I think that for flying models, that see-through effect is quaint...part to the appeal of a flying model.  On the other hand...opacity is the realm of a display model.  And then...if you've caught Mike Stuart's website...he seems to be able to meld flying and display into one using opaque paints with overwhelming success...but then, he's a master.

Long and short of it AF is that it seems to me that the darker the tissue, the more apparent are the bones under it.  I think that lighter colors of tissue tend to blend with the balsa color better...less obvious.  Just the nature of things...that's my view.

Your tissue work looks great to me! Smiley

Neal
 
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Reply #59 - May 16th, 2018 at 7:22am

alfakilo   Offline
Senior Member
Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
****
 
I'm new to using Esaki. I'm covering the top of the D-500 with Esaki green and am happy to see that the color is close enough to not need painting. But one note that maybe you folks can help with...

This green Esaki is not as strong as the basic white, it seems to me. I don't have any problems with the white coming apart when I put it on wet, but the green seems more fragile. I was easing out wrinkles on the stab and the tissue fell apart as I was 'tugging' on it. I'm using an Elmers glue stick.

One thing to note. Esaki really tightens up nicely. Almost too nicely. The stab warped a bit when I covered the bottom. I pinned the stab down when covering the top and that seemed to straighten it out. The wing has considerable curve to the airfoil but the green Esaki wasn't affected a bit.

Another note. The stringers are visible thru the green tissue more so than the white. Haven't noticed that as much before. Porous tissue?
 

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Reply #58 - May 15th, 2018 at 9:46pm

Kerak   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 1591
****
 
Interesting site AF...spent some time this morning reading much of it...particularly about Molders.  Always heard that he was a confirmed NAZI...but that's not the way his bio was written up.  Says he was a dedicated Catholic (which doesn't fit the National Socialist mold) and liked to argue with Goring.  That would have taken some fortitude.  Interesting man.  Colors?  Still a mess.  Smiley

Thanks for the site, AlfK.

Neal
 
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Reply #57 - May 15th, 2018 at 8:04am

alfakilo   Offline
Senior Member
Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 455
****
 
Kerak wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 4:36pm:
I too have modeled the Guillows Bf109 Neal


I ran across this site this morning...many pictures that I had not seen before. To view the individual pics, click on the unit designation on far right side of screen. Good info for anyone building an early 109.

http://www.asisbiz.com/Bf-109D.html
 
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Reply #56 - May 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm

Kerak   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 1591
****
 
Well...there you have it...knock yourself out.  Smiley  NO, seriously...trial and error...diddle and fiddle until you're satisfied...guess that's the only way to do it.

I've waxed on this matter before...but here it is again: Kenneth Munson authored a series of aircraft guide books...with good general write-ups accompanied by color plates.  As an appendix he extensively went into how the colors were arrived at for the plates.  At first, the idea was to get testaments from individuals who were actually associated with the aircraft.  The problem immediately became apparent that no two individuals remembered the colors in the same way!  That system was a bust from the get-go.  Next it was an investigative research project...looking for the original paint data...as in numbers.  Problems immediately became evident that no two governments, much less manufacturers used a corresponding system!  To make a long story shorter...it's anyone's guess, sad and simple as that.  So when you sashay into that next contest with your documentation...the guy next to you may be trying to "sell" the same model as authentic scale...with some completely different shade of whatever.   That's the truth of it.

You ought to read what the Smithsonian does whenever they begin a restoration of an historic aircraft...like strip layers of paint meticulously noting and analyzing each and every layer until they believe they're reached the original...time consuming and specific in nature.

So build it, finish it...be satisfied...don't worry, be happy. Smiley

Neal
 
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