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17 1/4" BEECH STAGGERWING FLIGHT REPT. Feb 28 2018 (Read 275 times)
Reply #5 - Mar 2nd, 2018 at 10:14am

staubkorb   Offline
Senior Member
Stick & Tissue
Germany

Posts: 1262
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Richard,
it seems like:
1.- The indicated balance point is wrong... and for a FF model, can only be "accepted" if ALL construction parameters match the plan
2.- The incidence is not correct... (I'm kinda betting on this)
3.- the balance point is not where it should be...

I'm not at all familiar with the DUMAS model so any info should be taken lightly.

Adding a "million winds and letting her go" will likely net you a big loop and a whack on the back of your head Roll Eyes!

Load the model (rubber and prop - allowing the prop to freewheel) and test glide.  Add a lump of ballast to the nose if it climbs and then dives (stalling) till it glides properly.  IF the determined CG is WAY off from what the plan shows, you can be pretty sure that the decalage is off.  Once CG and decalge agree with each other, DO NOT change the CG!

Once the GLIDE trim is set, any weird antics under power will be addressed with thrust adjustments (zooming with down and side/right).  ADDING MORE OR LESS RUBBER TO THE BEECH WILL CHANGE THE CG!
 

WWWoFF
Wonderful Wacky World of Free Flight
(with a bit of rc thrown in for giggles)

Comparing Spammers to a pile of organic waste is an insult to the organic waste!
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Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 10:23pm

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
Senior Member
REAL PLANES HAD ROUND
ENGINES AND TWO WINGS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 1440
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The prop stops completely because I have four strands of tight rubber and it does not freewheel.  I am going to put in a new motor, whose length is one and one half times the prop hook to rear peg length, put in a million winds and just let her go next time ...  Angry
LWM
Richard
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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Reply #3 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 9340
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Richard,
Sorry to hear about the lawn dart.  Does the prop free wheel or does it stop completely when the winds are through? 

Seems we're getting a lot of snow this winter.  Where we are in So. West Washington state we usually don't get much snow...but this year we've had three storms that have dumped enough to last for a couple weeks each then melt off and then another....  So I'm wishing you the best and keep warm and dry!!!
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #2 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 10:06pm

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
Senior Member
REAL PLANES HAD ROUND
ENGINES AND TWO WINGS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 1440
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Tom - I had it balanced to the CG on the plan with the prop and rubber in.  Climbed and stalled on test glides and under power.  Then I took the rubber and prop off and balanced it to the plan CG by adding 5 grams additional clay.  I did not try it without the prop, so I put the prop and rubber back in, and it gave me a good glide.  Then I finally got a 6 second 16 yard flight on 120 winds going downwind, thereupon which, it stopped in the air as soon as the rubber ran out, and dropped straight down into the ground, nose first, like a piano,  from about 10 feet high.    Lips Sealed  Undecided   ???????  That was yesterday when there was no snow -  6 to 8" blizzard right now.  Need a calm day to experiment more.
LWM
Richard
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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Reply #1 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 8:33pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 9340
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Richard...did you ever get it to glide without the prop for a decent straight glide without stalling or veering left or right?  I usually don't add rubber with winds till I'm satisfied with the glide trimming.  Once I get a fairly long  straight glide, I then add the rubber and prop and nose block and re-balance to check cg.  Then add winds to get the power trim adjusted. 

You're a brave aviator flying Free Flight in the snow.  Although I'd love to have some 56 degree weather, we've been in the high 30s to high 40s.  Looking forward to spring!

I highly recommend Tom Arnold's and Don DeLoach's articles on trimming FF Aircraft for flight: Click Here
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Mar 1st, 2018 at 3:01pm

LASTWOODSMAN   Offline
Senior Member
REAL PLANES HAD ROUND
ENGINES AND TWO WINGS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 1440
****
 
FLIGHT REPORT Wed  Feb 28 2018    17 1/4"   Dumas "Beechcraft Staggerwing" bipe

     After rebalancing without the prop, thrust button and rubber, and using about 5 extra grams of modelling clay added, I just put the prop, thrust button and rubber back on (rubber is 4 strands  1/8", each  5 1/2"  long with prop hook to rear peg of  6"), and with out any further adieu, I went flying again in too much wind yesterday, with the Beech Staggerwing.    The five extra grams of modelling clay in the front of the nose,  makes it now weigh 41 grams for a wing loading of  0.53 g per square inch.   It seemed to have a good glide - even though I was testing the glide in wind.
     Got one good flight on 120 winds of 6 seconds for 16 yards, going straight ahead, barely rising and barely turning left, flying in too much downwind on the lee side of the trees, then it STOPS in mid air at the end of the power run, then plunges into the ground, nose first, with that "tinny" snapping crack, which was always further breaking the epoxy glue joint between the plastic cowl and its forward former inside, that has the "key" on it, to fit the hole for a removable cowl block.  That was why I kept getting more and more downthrust after every crash.  Never really noticed it til it looked like about 8 degrees downthrust !!    I looked at the plan - there a little  downthrust on the plan!   It just appeared that I had downthrust on the plane because I glued that front former into the plastic cowl incorrectly ...  I eventually pulled that forward former out of the removable plastic cowl, and now I have to figure out how to glue it back in solid. 
      You can make anything fly, but then there is the landing part.  On FF models, since there is no more motor thrust, you are at the command of your glide path ratio - jets have to "FLY" onto runways because they have the glide path of a piano.   I still have not determined for sure if the Staggerwing even has a glide path ratio or not.    So ... more thinking and work to do ... 
     Right now  4:00 PM Thurs March 1 2018, we are in the middle of a thick heavy heart attack snowstorm of  6 to 8"  really coming down.  So much for flying yesterday in 56 deg F temps ...
LWM
Richard
 

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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