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Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint (Read 973 times)
Reply #17 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:46pm

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
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Thanks, Mike! It was frustrating to use the screenshots from the decal webpages. For the P-47, I ended up using the stars and bars from the decal links here in the decal section. Much better results.

The HP inks are lousy when it comes to being affected by almost anything including Krylon sealant. The P-47 markings were the last thing to go on the model.

I'll keep working at it, and I appreciate all the help!!
 
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Reply #16 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 3:52pm

MKelly   Offline
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Helotes, TX

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AK,

For insignia, instead of copying a decal sheet (the JPG compression does funny things to the colors, especially near color transitions) grab insignia graphics like those on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aircraft_national_insignia

These scale nice and sharp and the colors are crisper and more consistent.

My wife has an HP printer and the inks are NOT water-resistant like the Dura-Brite inks on my Epson.

Regarding the colored pencil, I go at it pretty hard, with multiple passes and keeping the tip fairly sharp.  After a couple of passes the the colored areas take on a solid, almost plastic-like look.

Hope this helps,

Mike
 
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Reply #15 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:03pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Kelso, WA 98626 USA

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The difficulty of tissue-cals is that tissue, especially white tissue tends to go translucent when applied or when oversprayed with clear dope or Krylon Chrystal Clear.  Another option for white tissue is a light dusting of white paint sprayed on the back.  You cannot saturate the tissue or it might bleed through the other colors printed on the front side of the tissue.  Some use the floral spray for this which us usually a finer spray than most rattle cans.  You can sit a rattle can in hot water for five minutes before spraying and this will help to raise the pressure in the can and give a finer spray.

The other option is to print using your HP printer on white decal paper.  You'll get the white you desire because of the white decal paper.  This then requires you to apply the decal with the process used on plastic model.  With HP printers there's the danger of ink running with any sealing coat, dope or Krylon Crystal Clear.  A light dusting of Krylon Crystal Clear over the decal paper can seal the ink to avoid this problem. 

With decal paper you'll need a glossy surface to apply the decal paper or it won't sit down satisfactorily.  Hope this is helpful.
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #14 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 10:15am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
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Back on to this subject with the XP-47H. I'm trying to use Mike's technique and not having quite the same results.

But first things first. I see a number of things that may influence the outcome. One is the printer type and quality of printing. Another is the type and color of tissue being printed on. Then there is the image being copied...how good is it? And lastly, what is being used to highlight the tissue image after printing?

I'm using a HP DeskJet with standard color cartridge. I'm printing on white tissue (not Esaki). The USAAF stars and bars image was copied from a decal layout on the Internet. To highlight the white parts, I tried several things. One was the white pencil that Mike shows. I also tried several white ink/marker pens. I applied this to the back side of the tissue.

Using the white pencil, I could not get the same opaque white color that is seen in Mike's T-28 pics. The pencil did add a small amount of highlighting but not as much as desired. So far, I have had the best result using a Uni-Ball Signo ink pen, it produces a noticeable improvement in the white decals. It does leave a 'mottled' appearance due to the liquid nature of the ink.

One other issue that I'm struggling with is the blue color of the decal. I seem to get mostly black-like colors or purply looking colors, not a blue as in the insignia.

Tips and suggestions appreciated!!
 
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Reply #13 - May 10th, 2018 at 9:50am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

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LabinaLA wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 3:08am:
sorry that is not on the topic, I wanted to ask.Is from this material it turns out something worthwhile?


Not for me. I'm going to stay with printing on tissue. I think the waterslide type that I bought is more appropriate for putting decals on things like coffee mugs, etc, not the models that we build.
 
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Reply #12 - May 8th, 2018 at 3:08am

LabinaLA   Offline

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sorry that is not on the topic, I wanted to ask.Is from this material it turns out something worthwhile?
 
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Reply #11 - May 6th, 2018 at 1:04pm

MKelly   Offline
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Helotes, TX

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AK,

I apply the glue stick to the markings, then put them on the model.  I'm using UHU clear glue stick, although I have successfully used Elmer's purple too.  A q'tip moistened with rubbing alcohol will remove glue stick residue, but you don't want to have it fully wetted or scrub it hard against the tissue. 

I have yet to try dope over Tamiya paints other than at the edges of repairs, and those were painted over with a fresh coat of Tamiya, so I don't know how well that would work.  Might be better to use Tamiya clear coat to seal the markings if you're putting them down over paint.

You definitely want some sort of sealer coat over the markings - on the Navion I waited a couple weeks before doping over the black USAF lettering and the glue stick started to let go from the doped silver tissue.  A little rubbing alcohol re-activated the glue stick and got them stuck back down, and a with a coat of Nitrate dope over the finished wing I've had no further problems with the markings coming loose.

I haven't tried coloring the tissue before printing - not sure how well the print heads would handle any particulates that might come loose.

As far as the hangar goes, thanks - I'm learning with every model I build...

Mike
 
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Reply #10 - May 6th, 2018 at 10:31am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
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I'm working with replacing the decals with tissue and have some questions.

Do you apply the glue stick to the tissue decal or to the airplane itself? I've tried both. When gluing the airplane surface, I've had problems with residue glue and haven't been able to clean it off well. I've tried UHU (blue stick) and Elmers (both white, clear, and purple glue sticks).

I'm airbrushing Tamiya acrylics. Any problems applying dope over this paint?

I'm using the same white pencil as you. I'm going to try it out on the Polish markings and compare this to applying the tissue decal without highlighting the white areas. Attached are pics showing these without doping. #1 is top of the wing, dark brown and #2 is the bottom in light blue.

Is it possible to color the tissue before printing on it?

Btw, I looked at your hangar...great stuff and definitely something to aspire to!
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2018 at 11:40am by alfakilo »  
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Reply #9 - May 5th, 2018 at 11:48am

MKelly   Offline
Senior Member
Helotes, TX

Posts: 568
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AK,

I usually use a white colored pencil on the back of the lighter colors (anything I want to stand out).  See pics below - on the Me-262 I colored the back of the yellow numbers, white insignia and blue/white flash in front of the cockpit.  In the pic the markings on one side of the tissue have been colored, the other side hasn't yet been colored - you can see the difference.  Same for the sheet of US insignia, with the white and red areas colored.  You can see in the picture of the Navion how the white pencil opaques the tissue and keeps the silver from showing through.

Mike
 
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Reply #8 - May 5th, 2018 at 8:22am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
****
 
MKelly wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 6:35am:
Do a quick web search to find a good graphic for the insignia, import it into PowerPoint and scale it appropriately, then print it on white tissue.  Color the back side with a white colored pencil, cut the insignia out and tack it to the model using glue stick, then seal with a coat of dope.  If you look in my hangar you can see a Navion and an F5F with insignia done this way. Mike


I like this technique and used it on this Bristol. The wing and tail red stripes are red tissue over white. The roundels were printed on white tissue and the red color clearly shows thru.

Taking someone's advice, I bought some Prismacolor pencils. When you say to color the backside, I'm assuming you mean only the white portions?
 

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MC1_b.jpg
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Reply #7 - May 5th, 2018 at 6:35am

MKelly   Offline
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Helotes, TX

Posts: 568
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Do a quick web search to find a good graphic for the insignia, import it into PowerPoint and scale it appropriately, then print it on white tissue.  Color the back side with a white colored pencil, cut the insignia out and tack it to the model using glue stick, then seal with a coat of dope.  If you look in my hangar you can see a Navion and an F5F with insignia done this way.

Mike
 
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Reply #6 - May 4th, 2018 at 10:43pm

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
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MKelly wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 1:56pm:
I've given up on waterslide decals and now use printed tissue.  With a little care and some chalk or pencil to opaque the back side...Mike


I've tried tissue and so far it has worked OK for me, just more work than a traditional decal.

Using the Polish fighter that I've mentioned, how would you use tissue to achieve the same (or close to) appearance?
 
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Reply #5 - May 4th, 2018 at 1:56pm

MKelly   Offline
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Helotes, TX

Posts: 568
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AK, your pictures mirror my experiences trying to put decals on tissue-covered models.  Hard to get them to stick down, even with Solvaset.  I always seem to get discolored areas from trapped air under the decal, and when they do stick down they aren't very robust, fracturing and flaking off anywhere the tissue takes damage. 

I've given up on waterslide decals and now use printed tissue.  With a little care and some chalk or pencil to opaque the back side they'll look just as sharp and clean as waterslide decals, but they lay down much better on the surface and after a coat of dope will look and behave just like the tissue substrate.  Plus, if (when) you damage the skin you can just print and apply fresh markings over the repairs.

Mike
 
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Reply #4 - May 4th, 2018 at 11:32am

alfakilo   Offline
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Retired USAF and TWA.
St Louis, MO

Posts: 497
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Here is a wing decal applied on a flat surface. The decal on the other side did not curl up as bad as the first, but it scratched easily. The fuselage decal stayed on well but all decals were easy to scratch while blotting out the bubbles, etc.

The decal paper was sprayed twice with Krylon clear before application.

I'll post more when I try to fix these.
 

p7_decal.jpg (17 KB | )
p7_decal.jpg
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Reply #3 - May 4th, 2018 at 9:31am

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

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That's way I used to do plastic models....glossy surface for applying the decal using solva-set, then a matte finish over the decal to give the flat military finish. 

I look forward to seeing how this works for you.
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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