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Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one) (Read 5075 times)
Reply #116 - Dec 18th, 2018 at 11:21am

Skyediamonds   Offline
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Tom,

Thank you.  I was thinking it might've needed the clear coat for two reasons: 1) my grandson and 2) for the application of pin wash.  I'm told and read that a gloss coat of clear is almost mandatory for the pin wash to truly do its job of traveling through all of those panel lines via capillary action without the rough surfaces stopping or hindering its flow.  What do you think? 

I sprayed another sample sheet of paper with the metallic paint last night and this time, I'm allowing it to cure at least 24 hours instead of the "normal" 2 hours drying time allowed before handling it.  The instructions also say to wait at least  8 hours to allow it to cure completely before applying a second coat.  So you're probably right about the waiting times.  Presumably the second coat will be in the form of clear coat.  Just anxious to move forward with the model I guess and the impatience got the better of me.

 
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Reply #115 - Dec 18th, 2018 at 12:37am

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Skye...did you use anything to degrease the silver surface?  From the looks of the picture, the clear seemed to bead up like water on a waxed surface. 

Although looking at the picture of the silver paint can...I'm not sure you'd need a clear coat to cover the silver paint.  With it being an enamel it would seem to be easily cleaned after having dried completely before being handled.
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #114 - Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:30pm

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Going against common sense and all of the readings about not adding a protective coating of clear over silver paint, ended in disaster. 

There may be a few modelers out there who think I might've added too much spray at once.  This is actually just a couple of light passes.

The is the clear coat.  As you can see, it's the same Rust-oleum brand.  So, using the same brand won't help either.

I'm open to ideas, suggestions and comments as to how I may protect the silver paint from finger prints, handling, and possibly being able to do some pin washing.
 
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Reply #113 - Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:24pm

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This is an extreme close up of the line scribed by the awl and I found I have to be careful not to push too hard and deep.  Doing so, not only creates the desired panel lines, but actually creates ridges on the sides making the line appear more like a furrow on a farmer's field.

So, it is a matter of practicing the paneling with the awl a few times to get the feel of how much pressure to add to the awl, which I've found it to be slightly more than simply holding a pen, as seen from the horizontal line.
 
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Reply #112 - Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:19pm

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After scribing them with rivets, lines, and hatches.  I then sprayed both the paper and plastics. 

From the looks of things, I'd say the glossy paper won.

The first  picture shows a close up of the paper after it was scribed and painted

The second shows the plastic after it too was scribed and painted.
 
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Reply #111 - Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:11pm

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Good evening guys:

While I'm working on the wheel well enclosures I've also been experimenting with ways to cover the wings.  Being the easy going sort of guy (read that, lazy) I'd like to avoid going through all the hassles of laying down sheets of balsa wood over the wings and goiing through the sanding/filling/priming and sanding route.  I've decided to opt for the easy way of covering the wings by either going with thin sheets of plastic or paper.  So, I decided to try experimenting with both.  I purchased an awl and used a pounce wheel to reproduce simulated rivets along with the use of a small diameter brass tube to replicate the small hatches used to fasten the wing panels. 

The first two pictures show the plastic and glossy paper I intend to use on the wings.  Of course, at this point I'll be experimenting as a Proof-of-concept" and not actually work on the wings themselves.

The next series of pictures show how I'm going to scribe the lines, rivets and hatch marks using various tools of trade. 

The last photo shows my rattle can of Rustoleum Metallic paint.
 
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Reply #110 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 10:14pm

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That's a good idea.  The wheel well in itself is a enclosure within the wing.  I've noticed and photographed the wheel well and it has a flat "ceiling" with walls.  The main wing spar makes up the back wall, the rest are sheets of aluminum and supports.  It's kind of difficult to describe.
 
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Reply #109 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 11:26am

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Skyediamonds wrote on Dec 12th, 2018 at 7:05am:
Only remaining issue is how to have the underside surface of outside skin of the wing itself retain its curved shape, and also have a wheel well outline, since there's no way I can have laminations or other supports to hold the skin.   I'm open to suggestions or comments. 

Not sure just what you're asking?  Are you speaking of the panel with the wheel well, or the opposite panel without the open wheel well.  If you have the laminations of the ribs fore and aft of the wheel well, then the curvature should be maintained.  As for the wheel well cover on the gear leg, you might consider molding the skin by boiling the balsa and taping it to a properly shaped mold to dry.
Tom
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2018 at 10:11pm by Skyediamonds »  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #108 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 7:05am

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With all of the laminated ribs in place, the wing is finally taking shape as a true Mustang's laminar flow.

You can easily see from the underside view that now I have a really good wheel well and lots of room to detail it. 

Looking from the side elevation as seen from the trailing edge as the wing is laying down you can also see how the root is rather high in curvature and then graduated downward to the wing and then towards the tip.   This is something I can adjust and lower the laminations a bit to suit.  Still, everything seems to "click" and fits right in the fuselage saddle.

I'm thinking of attaching a "ceiling" under the laminated woods and building up side walls as the full sized Mustang has what can best be described as enclosures.  In short, building up an interior wheel well with plumbing, wiring and faux supports resembling the full sized interior of the Mustang.

Only remaining issue is how to have the underside surface of outside skin of the wing itself retain its curved shape, and also have a wheel well outline, since there's no way I can have laminations or other supports to hold the skin.   I'm open to suggestions or comments. 
 
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Reply #107 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 3:17pm

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So it began with rib # 2 and each succeeding smaller rib to # 4 that I would use as templates for the laminations. 

The last picture shows only three of the laminations.  I decided on reinforcing them by nearly doubling up on the laminated rib outlines for added strength.  Hence, the reason why I mentioned # 4 rib.
 
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Reply #106 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 3:03pm

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While working on the underside of the wing, I was still trying to debate with myself on the merits of simply gluing the ribs in normal fashion following the instructions laid out on the plans.  From there, it was suggested after the wing was completed, to simply take a Dremel tool and whittle away the material from the ribs where the wheel wells were to be located. 

I had a little difficulty with this concept.  Two reasons: First, I had altered the wing chord at the root to reflect a more accurate outline of the real Mustang and this altered chord was larger than the one called for on the plans.  This meant the original ribs provided by Guillow's to be used in a normal fashion would no longer fit the new wing outline and were useless.

Secondly, I was concerned from the stand point that just using the Dremel tool however lightly on thin 1/16" balsa ribs risked the chance of shattering the wood.  I'm keeping in mind that this is an older kit where the parts were still die-cut as opposed to laser.  This meant the wood has aged somewhat over a period of time.  Combined with Guillow's use of hardened balsa, it only made sense that hardened wood would be more susceptible to shattering if I were to so much look at it cross-eyed.

Finally, what material left of the ribs would be extremely fragile with nothing else to give them added support to make up for the loss of material and I didn't think there would be any strength to hold up the top surface of the wing and retain its airfoil shape; let alone the added stress of holding the wing to the fuselage with an empty wheel well.

An alternative had to be considered.  As that portion of the model lay dormant, I went back and forth in my mind all kinds of alternate methods to consider.  There were pros and cons to all and each one was eliminated for one reason or another.

Borrowing an idea of using laminated strips of wood that I used from my S.E.5 build on the fuselage, I decided this would be a good concept for the wing and the added strength that comes with lamination itself.

But how could I match up the correct airfoil shape of the laminated strips of wood to the fuselage saddle?  Bright light bulbs really come in handy every once in awhile and it really lit up brightly this time.  In this case, it pays to save the ribs and extra woods until the model is completely built.  One never knows when that extra piece would come in handy.  In this case, it was wing rib # 2 which, according to the plans is supposed to fit exactly to the saddle of the fuselage.

The first two pictures shows my empty wheel within the framework of the wing and the relationship to the fuselage.

The next photo shows the cutout of the fuselage and the part number clearly printed indicating its purpose and location.

It would be this rib that I would use for the initial template with each succeeding smaller rib to help blend in the taper of the wing from the root to the tip.
« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2018 at 7:10am by Skyediamonds »  
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Reply #105 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 1:16pm

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Getting back to the underside of the wing and using Mike's ideas.  As you can see, I'm starting to round out the extra balsa strips that were added to the bottom of the ribs.  It's not much of an airfoil in the laminar sense, but it'll hopefully be enough to make a visual difference from pure flat Clark Y.  You can compare this photo with the pictures # 31 & # 32 from the previous page.

Now to deal with the top surface of the wing over the wheel well areas.
 
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Reply #104 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 12:46pm

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Alrighty:  Just received written permission from a gentleman named Mark of Scale Aviation Modeller to use their photos of the early version of the P-51D Mustang.  This is a British publication of plastic models devoted strictly to aviation in general and aircraft in particular.  To me, this is one of the better publications on detailing of plastic modeling.  This particular issue is from December of 2017 (last year as of this writing).   

Last year, I was initially drawn to the front cover of the P-51 knowing that I would eventually start working on my daughter's Mustang.  So, in addition to collecting photos, stashing kits, and drawings, it also pays to save magazines.  You just never know when they'll become the next reference source.

Finally these pictures reveal parts of the Mustang I was not able to obtain otherwise on the full sized article.  It's not everyday one can flip a Mustang over on its back to illustrate the wheel well detailing as well as the joining of the wing to the fuselage as viewed from the underside.

As you can see from the first picture of the front cover, that Mustang really grabs one's attention. 

The next series of pictures really illustrate the wheel well outlines, the shape of the inner retracting wheel well doors and that small long "bump" running down the middle of the underside of the wing starting at the air scoop.  That "bump" is actually a cover for all the bolts used to fasten the two wing panels together.  This method of using all of those heavy-duty bolts is also duplicated on the Ryan Navion series of private planes.  It makes sense, because the Navion originated from North American when the war was over and NAA wanted to jump into the fast-growing private plane market.  Ultimately, the Navion series was turned over to Ryan Aeronautical, but that's another story.

The last picture really highlights how the wing's thickness is more pronounced on the top surface, with the underside more shallow.  It was also this area that was the focus of my attention in trying to figure out how to thicken the wing as well as making the lower surface of the wing more 'rounded" from the flat Guillow's wing, add wheel well details, and at the same time, deal with the revised leading edge of the wing meeting with the lower portion of the fuselage.

All photos on this post are courtesy Mr. Mark Willey of Scale Aviation Modeller, thank you very much, sir.  It's greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:36pm by Skyediamonds »  
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Reply #103 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 3:06pm

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Just a quick note to say that I sent a quick email to a British plastic model magazine for permission to use a couple of their photos of a Revell P-51D from their Dec. 2017 issue.  If granted, then I can post them to show some of the detailing I'm trying to achieve. 

We'll see.  In the meantime, I'll continue to post as I progress on my build.
 
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Reply #102 - Nov 23rd, 2018 at 7:34pm

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This is where I'm using Mike's ideas. 

I only need to add some "roundness" to the underside of the wing, not necessarily increasing its thickness.  So, I decided the best way to do this was just give it a tiny, itsy, bitsy, roundness to the underside of the wing by adding strips of balsa to the underside of the flat ribs and to the leading edge to compensate for the added balsa. 

When the strips are glued in and dried, then I'll emphasize the roundness of the leading edges to help create the illusion of a more laminar airfoil.   I'm purposely leaving the trailing edges alone and just going to "feather" in the rear portion of the "roundness" to the beginning of the flaps and ailerons.  I'm trying to keep things from getting too complicated.

These two pictures show what I'm trying to do.  In the first photo, strips of balsa are simply laid over the ribs for photographic purposes.  The second picture shows a small sample strip laid on top of the leading edge to help match up the added thickness.

Since I'm purposely going to have the flaps displayed in extended position, that will serve to help hide the feathering of the rounded surfaces to the edges. 
« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2018 at 9:37pm by Skyediamonds »  
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