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Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one) (Read 3060 times)
Reply #94 - Yesterday at 9:28am

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If I'm reading his idea right, is to leave the bottom portion of the wing flat, but add the extra airfoil to the outer wing panels.  Does this mean I'll be increasing the fuselage around the saddle to compensate?  In another words, the flat bottom of the wing is mostly hidden inside the extra underside of the fuselage?

Gary - That was the line of thought I had. Your airfoil on the top of the wing is sized to fit the wing saddle exactly, so no change there. Adding the material to the lower portion of the airfoil to give it more authenticity can then be blended into the fuselage at the flat portion giving you more material to create the fuselage profile and more material to manage the wheel well activity.
Mike
 

Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it. (Salvador Dali 1904 - 1989)
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Reply #93 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 1:46pm

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Mike and Tom:

Good morning and thank you for your inputs.  Mike, yep, I'm just doing one opened gun bay, leaving the other "closed" by giving the viewer the chance to see how it looks opened and closed just by looking at either wing.  That, plus it really saves me a whole lot of extra work....  Which is probably the real reason but please don't tell.

Tom and Mike,

I thoroughly agree with you on the airfoil.  I have to  finish off just a couple of items on the wing frames, then, without gluing the two panels together, I'll trial fit them and see how it all plays out and determine what can be done.  Mike's idea sounds good. 

If I'm reading his idea right, is to leave the bottom portion of the wing flat, but add the extra airfoil to the outer wing panels.  Does this mean I'll be increasing the fuselage around the saddle to compensate?  In another words, the flat bottom of the wing is mostly hidden inside the extra underside of the fuselage?

My goal is to emulate the plastic modeler's displays by having the Mustang posed over a mirror to allow the viewer to see the details of the wheel wells.  That's when it dawned on me about the airfoils in the first place.   Hence, all that fuss about redesigning the outlines and detailing of the wells. 

 
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Reply #92 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 11:02am

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Looks like you've got plenty of leading edge for rounding out the airfoil on the outer panels. I like Mike's solution with leaving the center of the wing "as is" for mating to the fuselage.  A strip of balsa(sq stringer) on the bottom of the wing ribs could assist in giving the laminar section as well.  Sanded to shape.  Again, "take my advice and do as you please!" as my father used to say! Grin Cheesy Wink
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #91 - Nov 15th, 2018 at 10:41am

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Gary - You could add material to the bottom of the airfoil to give it a more realistic appearance and leave the center section flat bottom to preserve the wing saddle and the overall appearance. On the other hand you could still modify the wing saddle but may put the wing too high in the fuselage, if I'm reading all this correctly. Great work by the way. I'm assuming you are only doing one gun bay?
Mike
 

Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it. (Salvador Dali 1904 - 1989)
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Reply #90 - Nov 14th, 2018 at 9:27pm

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Thank you Sky9, much appreciated.  Glad to know we're all in the same "plane."   I learned a lot of very good modeling techniques and ideas from reading scale plastic modeling magazines.  I've never strayed far from my first endeavors into this wonderful field. 

I've attended a couple of plastic modeling shows here in the Reno area and was both impressed and disappointed.  Impressed with the level of detail and the skills to pull off some of the most fantastic models I've ever seen in recent years.  Disappointed that they're so possessive of their craft.  When they found out that I also build wooden models, their attitude literally changed instantly from warm and friendly to icy cold and became extremely aloof. It's almost as if I "defected" and betrayed their exclusive hobby.  Still, I keep reading many of their plastic model magazines to keep up with the latest techniques, skills, styles, kits, new ways of painting to give that model a more realistic look and the list goes on.

I'm now in the process of finishing off the wing frame.

The first picture shows the frame in its rough stage.  I haven't fabricated the flaps.  Since this is strictly a display model, weight considerations were not a factor and therefore to simplify things I decided to simply go with solid balsa.  Notice the solid blocked wingtips.  The plans call for stringers to extend from the wings out to the tips. 

The second picture shows me carving out the excess balsa block to the wingtips.  To accurately gauge how much to shave off before sanding, I simply flipped over the frame to reveal the Guillow's wingtip part and followed the outline from there. One really smart move here, I decided to rough out the wingtips and sand them down as close to the outlines as possible before gluing the two separate wing halves together.  This reduced a lot of stress on the fragile frame and made sanding much easier.  This picture shows the separate wing panels placed on the table as if they were glued together.  I have yet to add the dihedral.

A good close up of the right wingtip and detail.

The last picture shows the fuselage on the wings.  Darn, it's really starting to look like a "Stang!"

Question or feedback guys:  The Guillow's wings are Clark Y airfoil and therefore, they have flat undersides.  Should I add some airfoil underneath and add some thickness to the wing?  Potential problem is the fit to the fuselage which is designed for a flat-bottomed wing.   This translates to a possibility of the wings protruding outside the fuselage outline on the underside. 

I could possibly raise the saddle.......

Or, round out the leading edges to a more symmetrical shape to create the illusion of a laminar flow.... 


 
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Reply #89 - Nov 13th, 2018 at 3:21pm

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Thanks Gary...great info.  I used Microsol and Microset with my decals in plastic modeling years ago.  Great stuff.  You definitely need a glossy surface for decals to be placed to eliminate that "silvering".   Smiley
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #88 - Nov 13th, 2018 at 1:50pm

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This is the final result after a coating of clear paint over the decals.  The small cross (which is a symbol for C.G. used for maintenance purposes) really turned out very good.  The small red square also turned out good.  So, for future reference, I'll have to first add a clear coat of paint over the foil surface to help smooth out any microscopic irregularities that will show up the decal carrier film as "haze"  ( In the plastic modeling world, this is called "silvering), cut the decals as close to the prints as possible and use another coat of clear paint over the dried decals.



As a side note, it's a good practice to shoot a clear coat of paint over almost all surfaces which will have a decal over it.  **Always practice on a scrap piece first.  There are exceptions of course, fabric film coverings is one, if the fabric weave is to be seen through the decals in its entirety.  However, if you're using tissue coverings, and you're detail-oriented enough (read that, slightly crazy as myself), to add thin strips of rib stitching over the wing surfaces,  rivet details on tissue-covered fuselage surfaces and more, then a final shot of clear coat over tissue prior to adding the decals is applicable in this case as well. 


You really have to look very closely at the "gun camera" lettering to see some of the remaining carrier film.  The letters themselves are about 1/16."

MicroMark sells a special solution that will help "hide" the carrier film from the surfaces.  I'll purchase some of this and keep you guys updated.  But for now, as everything stands, not too bad. 

Keep in mind, working with highly polished surfaces, be it paint such as Alclad, silver, chrome or foil covering, any (and all) imperfections will show up. 
 
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Reply #87 - Nov 13th, 2018 at 1:35pm

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I immediately cut up a couple of decals of stencils and just dipped them in luke warm water like any other decals.  Unfortunately,  some of them dissolved in my hands and on the surface of Flite Metal.  So, I decided a quick shot of clear paint over the rest of the decals will serve to hold them in place and provide a protective cover as well.  As  you will see, it worked.  The vendor promised that he'll use a sealer on my next order. 

The first picture shows the Flite Metal covering over the proof-of-concept fuselage and you can see my "dents" over the dry transfers from my previous experiment.

The picture #4A shows the setting solutions.  I did not use them on this experiment but I'll definitely will employ them in the future.  They're really necessary in helping the decals to settle down real tight and over rivet details.

Picture # 5A shows the decals dissolving in my hands. 

I also discovered that the carrier film on the decals really show up on the Flite Metal.  I kind of expected this. So after the decals dried,  I shot another coat of clear paint over the decals to help blend in the carrier films into the surface.  This worked for the most part, but some of the carrier film still shows through. 

Picture # 7A shows the shot of clear paint over the rest of the decals.

Pictures # 8A & 9A really shows off the carrier films to good effect.

This means that I will have to cut the decals as close to the prints as possible to minimize any presence of the carrier film as possible. 
 
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Reply #86 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 4:07pm

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Received the sample decals in the mail the other day and it looks good.  These are the stencils that I was raving so much.  The guy who reproduces them really questioned my sanity too.  So, you guys are not alone.  I'm doing just fine.  Really.  Just fine.  Honest......
« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2018 at 1:41pm by Skyediamonds »  
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Reply #85 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 4:03pm

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Awrighty guys:

I tried the dry transfer route on the Flite Metal and got the results that I knew was going to happen.  The dry transfer letter and number worked well, but the rubbing of the transfers to the Flite Metal left its mark.   Luckily, it was only on my proof-of-concept fuselage.  I've posted the pictures in order, starting with the metal covering prior to the rubbing of transfers.  The next photo shows the transfers themselves and so on until the end.  Just sharing my experiments with you guys.  So, decals it is.....  Shocked
 
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Reply #84 - Oct 29th, 2018 at 3:06pm

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Craig, Sky9, New Builder, and fellow members:

Good afternoon.  No hiding from the HOA, we live in an apartment.  Just hiding my stash from the inspector/owner.  Insofar as dusting the model, I'm hoping my daughter will be cognizant enough to put the finished model inside a display case.  Failing that, at least in a shadow box.  Finally, Craig, glad to hear of your awakening.  We all get into a "holding pattern" for awhile.  Mine was due to several factors outside of my control: pneumonia, surgery, grandchild, "hiding my stash," working 6-day work weeks, family obligations, and well.........

Still managed to squeeze in my hour's worth of research and trying to get some stenciling made into decals.  That was the primary reason why I was inquiring about Callie's graphics as opposed to decals.  The graphics would have to be thin enough to pass for stenciling and, given the thickness of graphics, I opted for decals.   Then I had a choice of either using decals or dry transfers.  The dry transfers have one major drawback, that is rubbing or burnishing the lettering onto the surface.  With the chrome vinyl or Flite Metal as my choice of covering, I didn't want to risk all of those rub marks being passed onto the polished surfaces.  I still have several sheets of dry transfers from my old modeling days and might try a couple of passes on my proof-of-concept fuselage section that I used to experiment the different coverings between the vinyl and FM.  So, we'll see.  Should I elect to try the transfers, I'll definitely post the results.

To me, that's what "True Modeling" is all about.  Not just an assembly of parts and painting the results, but meeting the challenges of our ideal goals and trying to find the best solutions to achieve those goals; whether its for the best flight characteristics or the best work of art for display or even both.  This is where our imaginations and this site kicks in.  We share our ideas, results, trials and tribulations and in doing so, we become "family" in the process.   Oh yeah, the model ends up pretty good too.... Grin
 
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Reply #83 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 8:22am

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Gary - Was just thinking about you this morning and where you were on your P51. Glad to see you are moving along but sorry you need to hide from the homeowners assn. but you will be back to work soon. Thanks for the link to the WWII site, I'll visit them for my F6F colors. Looking forward to more photos when things get back to normal.
Mike
 

Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it. (Salvador Dali 1904 - 1989)
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Reply #82 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 11:27pm

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OK Gary...I was looking at the pics of your gun bays and my wife saw the the yellow green of the chromate green gun bays and said, "What's that?"  so I told her and showed her the pics you posted of the real wing panel and she said,
"Wow, that's crazy...will it fly?"  I told her it's just for display... she just looked at me and said, "I'd hate to dust it!" Roll Eyes Shocked Grin Cheesy Wink
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #81 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 7:43pm

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Skye, your skill and devotion to detail scare me Cheesy I gotta shake my doldrums and get back on the Howard!
 
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Reply #80 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:45pm

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Good morning to all,

Just a quick update.  I've somewhat finished the gun bay, but have to temporarily put the model on "hold" until the gardener's shed passes inspection.  I had to hide the model and all of the building materials in the hopes that the inspectors/owners won't notice.

However, I've not been idle.  I've been busy seeking out various markings & stencils of the aircraft and where to place them on the model.  I visited WW2Aircraft.net and their level of research, whereas I mentioned them before with documentation for the gun bay, they continue to amaze me with their repository of detailed information.  I've taken the time here to post just a few of their stencils for the "D" version of the Mustang series.  Anyone interested in truly outdoing themselves on their models of aircraft should visit this site and see for themselves.  I'm in the process of having all of these stencils made into decals.  Whereas I may not use every-single-one of them, it's nice to know this  model is going to garner some attention!  I've seen hundreds of R/C sized models in high levels of competition, but rarely have I seen anyone take the time with stenciling.

They were also kind enough to provide me with some tidbits of history pertaining to Big Beautiful Doll.  Apparently, there were three of them.  Two for Landers alone.  Not sure about the third.  However, early photos shows the BBD logo on the nose rather than on the side of the fuselage on later versions.  I'm going with the later version, but it's nice to know about this plane and its history.

For those modelers who are working on warbirds, or thinking of making a super detailed model of a warbird, you may wish to consider that none of the aircraft (that I'm aware of), ever came out of the factory without some sort of stenciling. 


Skye

 
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