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How to build model airplanes >> Cook ups, Build alongs, participation builds, what have you. >> Pre New age group build idea
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Message started by NcGunny on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:36am

Title: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:36am
So I have been pouring over Golden Age builds and articles people have posted. Thanks go out to Sky9,Staub,Big, Thyme etc..(many others also) Got me to thinking of a group build for a plane from the 30's-40's. The snag would be that you would have to use period specific tools and equipment for that time. I realize not everyone has stuff like dope and banana oil on hand anymore so rules could be bent there. Also I might suggest if enough interest is shown that we do a group buy from a kit maker. Also...there wont be any new fangled magnetic building boards etc. If it wasnt available for that time..cant be used.  ;D Post something if you have interest and suggestions.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 10th, 2015 at 7:50am
Gunny, this sounds interesting. You may want to move this to the COOK UP SECTION to gain more attention to get more people interested in joining.


Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:27pm
Kk..i dont know how to move it,so if a Admin can that wud be great.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 10th, 2015 at 3:55pm
Gunny, it is now in the Cook Up section. So people! What do yall say?

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:25pm
I'm interested later on this winter after I get a couple of the latest out of the way.  I'm interested in the Golden Age Air Racers.   A Mr. Smoothie or a new Chambermaid since my last one didn't survive the Grandson tantrum a couple years back!  Both are great flyers!  Count me in! Even if I'm a bit late!

EDIT: 4:31 pm- After thinking a minute...we just did an Air Racers Cookup so I'll be looking a more planes of the 30's and 40's.  Lots there to look at.  I already have a few in mind!
Tom

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Dec 11th, 2015 at 6:10am

Sky9pilot wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:25pm:
I'm interested later on this winter after I get a couple of the latest out of the way.  I'm interested in the Golden Age Air Racers.   A Mr. Smoothie or a new Chambermaid since my last one didn't survive the Grandson tantrum a couple years back!  Both are great flyers!  Count me in! Even if I'm a bit late!

EDIT: 4:31 pm- After thinking a minute...we just did an Air Racers Cookup so I'll be looking a more planes of the 30's and 40's.  Lots there to look at.  I already have a few in mind!
Tom

Chambermaid or Smoothie, as an aircraft, fits in the period, but I guess the idea is to build from a model/plan that was available at that time?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 11th, 2015 at 9:18am
I was thinking we could do a vote on a plane or two and do a group buy for the kits. At one time i know i had got a email that DPC could do printed up kits. I thought that a grp buy might attract more people who really cant plan build. But if we can find a supplier that has assortment that might be a option also. Might put a post up on HPA also.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 11th, 2015 at 2:23pm
yeah i'm in we can build from plans if we have them.

jim ;D 8-)

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 11th, 2015 at 3:06pm
Plans might be a financial way only for some Jim. But remember you cant use any PC generated parts stickers. Tracing paper would be the obvious choice for that time frame and/or cutting up the plans.Or the pin prick method... :o

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 11th, 2015 at 3:31pm

JIM wrote on Dec 11th, 2015 at 2:23pm:
yeah i'm in we can build from plans if we have them.
jim ;D 8-)


I'm with Jim and willing to use tracing paper.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 11th, 2015 at 3:40pm
Gunny, do you have a time frame of what airplanes would be allowed?

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 12th, 2015 at 7:07am
I was kinda thinking something along the lines of 1935-1945.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by cdwebb on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:52am
It sounds pretty interesting - all except the "no magnets" part. I have very few pins and nothing to stick 'em in. Still may  build along (on a separate thread). Should be fun! :)

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:55am

NcGunny wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 at 7:07am:
I was kinda thinking something along the lines of 1935-1945.


Now! I am interested, have you set up the criteria? Such as
1. 1935-1945
2.
3.



Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 12th, 2015 at 4:22pm
CD--  If you have a Dollar General they have T-pins and the ones with ball ends for 1.00 a pack. While you are there grab
a empty cardboard box and you are all set for a building surface. Think the box should get you through 1 build.
Big-- I think any production kit from 1935-1945 and/or any plan that was a magazine supplied supplement. Monday I plan on seeing what a few suppliers can do for a group buy on print wood kits, either full or short kits. If the newer guys
and girls are reading this dont be afraid to join in.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Dec 12th, 2015 at 6:29pm
I think that I would favor the Joe Ott 1938 Cub. Simple construction. I might even have some wood from some old kits that would qualify as being from that era (ha ha).
See: http://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4201

ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 13th, 2015 at 12:11am
I'm looking at this one 1938 from Ace Whitman the HOWARD DGA-8.
Sky9pilot
thumbnail_Howard_DGA8.jpg (77 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 13th, 2015 at 8:29am
I have been thinking about this Ace Whitman plan for some time.

After going through my flash drives for the Ace Whitman plan, I ran across many many more plans I like. Here are a couple more that hold my interest.

I could not post Comets Red Demon Racer, the file size is too large. So here is the outerzone link.
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=155
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2306



https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=caudron_c-460_27in_from_megow_models_001.pdf (315 KB | )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Howard_DGA-9_-_25_in__wingspan_by_Comet.pdf (397 KB | )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Vultee_Vengeance.pdf (347 KB | )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Messerschmitt_ME-109_16in_kit_A-37_001.pdf (328 KB | )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=P47_001.pdf (165 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 13th, 2015 at 1:33pm
I tried to research what glues were available for this time frame but didnt have alot of luck.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by terryman on Dec 13th, 2015 at 2:41pm

NcGunny wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 1:33pm:
I tried to research what glues were available for this time frame but didnt have alot of luck.


Ambroid may have been used for model building, has been around since 1900.  Not very common now, my last tube is empty though I do like using it.

http://www.ottertooth.com/Canoe_pages/ambroid.htm

Terry

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 13th, 2015 at 3:04pm
Terry, is correct that Ambroid was in use along with Elmers.

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Dec 13th, 2015 at 4:11pm
Back then, most kit manufacturers included a small un-marked tube of glue in the kits.  Probably was Ambroid, at least that was what I had in the first kits I built in the early '50s (included a few red/yellow box Comets and all the Megow's).  The Strombeckers had a really stinky horse hoof based goop that my Mom wouldn't let me use in the house (not even in the basement) - Ambroid or Duco was OK.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 14th, 2015 at 7:58am
Pete, I remember the small tube of glue that came with plastic kits. I don't remember those in a balsa kit, but I do remember that stinky tube you are speaking of :P. There was another tube of adhesive that came in a tube or glass jar we would get from either the 5 an dime or the hardware store, I don't remember the name. The fluid was a light yellow and dried the same color.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 14th, 2015 at 8:02am
I had seen the Ambroid, Elmers and another that I cant remember the name of right now. I have two tubes of Comet kit glue left that I have no problem believing are still useable today. They are in a plain aluminum tube and not solidified at all. I had read a post awhile back of a guy that had bought 1 1/2 CASES of Ambroid from his LHS for a buck each. It was one if those things where the cases got lost in the storeroom forever and when inventory control was all on paper.
Shop owner couldnt sell it,and most didnt even know what it was used for. So the poster bought it for 1.00 each,which was probably still more than what the owner paid for it originally.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Dec 14th, 2015 at 8:40am

bigrip74 wrote on Dec 14th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Pete, I remember the small tube of glue that came with plastic kits. I don't remember those in a balsa kit, but I do remember that stinky tube you are speaking of :P. There was another tube of adhesive that came in a tube or glass jar we would get from either the 5 an dime or the hardware store, I don't remember the name. The fluid was a light yellow and dried the same color.

Bob
That might have been LePage's paper glue - smelled almost as bad as the stuff from the Strombecker kits, but was likely diluted for use as "glue for paper".


NcGunny wrote on Dec 14th, 2015 at 8:02am:
I had seen the Ambroid, Elmers and another that I cant remember the name of right now. I have two tubes of Comet kit glue left that I have no problem believing are still useable today. They are in a plain aluminum tube and not solidified at all. I had read a post awhile back of a guy that had bought 1 1/2 CASES of Ambroid from his LHS for a buck each. It was one if those things where the cases got lost in the storeroom forever and when inventory control was all on paper.
Shop owner couldnt sell it,and most didnt even know what it was used for. So the poster bought it for 1.00 each,which was probably still more than what the owner paid for it originally.

I was going to say 'open one up and use it, and let us know what you think', but, those gems might be worth a small fortune!  There are collectors out there (on the 'Bay), who've dropped a bundle on an "old tube of hobby glue".  I watched a single un-marked (plain metal, kid's thumb sized) one go on the US site for a really outrageous price - IIRC, > $75.00, so you might want to hang onto them.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 14th, 2015 at 9:06am
Staub, I have 3 of the tubes but I did open 1 and use some of it on a old Comet kit I had bought and copied. Lol..it is a powerful smelling glue,not offensive to the nose but powerful. Amber colored and kinda thick. The new stuff is all runny and has a weird odor to it. I am pretty sure that most of the "fletching glue" for arrows is almost the same as Ambroid,even smells similar. I have some Bohning Fletch-Tite and its cellulose based. Funny they cant air mail it either.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 15th, 2015 at 1:07pm
I put up a post on the Comet Facebook page last night.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 18th, 2015 at 2:47pm
I have narrowed my selection down to a full size Wakefield or a Sunbeam,Phantom, Miss Canada, Rainbow. Cant decide yet.. leaning towards the 1st two though.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 18th, 2015 at 3:45pm

NcGunny wrote on Dec 18th, 2015 at 2:47pm:
I have narrowed my selection down to a full size Wakefield or a Sunbeam,Phantom, Miss Canada, Rainbow. Cant decide yet.. leaning towards the 1st two though.


Gunny, do you have plans for any of these Wakefields?

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 18th, 2015 at 5:47pm
Actually I have never built any of them. I found em all in printwood for sale and my printer took a serious meltdown and
this time I want to get a decent printer that I can wifi and bluetooth to it. Lol..I have enough wood stashed I could prolly build a dozen of each.  But seriously, I think I will point the kit buyers towards Penn Valley Hobbies if nothing more than
for the simple fact he offers a huge selection of kits at decent prices. If it was LC kits also then it would be a different game. I really want a Wakefield in the Supersize version (in denial here..I will probably build the whole list) kinda wish I had a original copy of a Wake to use.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 18th, 2015 at 6:19pm
Gunny...you might want to consider a printer with color fast ink/dye that doesn't run when water hits it! Like Epson in case you might want to print tissue at a later date.

I'd love to have one that was wireless and wifi capable also! While I'm wishing!

Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Dec 18th, 2015 at 6:36pm
Can you even find a printer today that doesn't have a scanner, bluetooth, wifi, fax and a shoe-shine kit built in?
It is cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy replacement ink! Just wait until after Christmas for the sales.
ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 18th, 2015 at 6:38pm
Sky..was just thinking of that while scouting out Amazon and Tiger Direct I should throw in the Epson Style Ink. Its gotta have Bluetooth and wifi 1st. Hated to point out one company to buy from..I like Volare and also Aero-Workes,but Penn Valley seems to be a 1 stop shop for this cook-up if people cant plan build. Somehow you guys building all these old planes got.me away from the warbirds for awhile..lol
PB-- my old printer had a scanner and I seriously almost wore it out. No wifi or bluetooth though and I needed it. Can sitat work and print plans at home..lol. if it wasnt for needing color, i would buy a laser printer.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 19th, 2015 at 1:02pm
what no guillows or comet scale ww2models?

jim ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:30pm
No Comets on this build for me. Had several messagez though of guys doing some Guillows for the start up.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:25am
:D  'll do a guillows old timer.

jim ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 20th, 2015 at 4:48pm
OK, found my plan and plane for this cookup.  The Northrup Gamma, found a plan on Outerzone copyrighted in 1934 hope I can squeeze it in just before the 1935-1945 time period.
The Northrop Gamma.
Sky9pilot
0f592d4b17d832df10aab6773495dd11.jpg (27 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 20th, 2015 at 7:00pm
Tom, that is one of the a/c that was on my mind. I was reading a SKYWAYS No.59 July 2001 and came across this airplane that peaked my interest.

Paramount Cabinaire

The Paramount Cabinaire was a 1920s designed cabin biplane, designed by Walter J. Carr and produced by the Paramount Aircraft Corporation. Only eight were completed before production ceased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_Cabinaire

I would like to find a plan if possible, if not I have several others waiting.





12092L.jpg (38 KB | )
Cabinaire5small.jpg (71 KB | )
Cabinaire-72dpi.jpg (138 KB | )
NC17M_1929_Cabinaire.jpg (93 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 21st, 2015 at 6:33am
Big, I almost swear that at some point Airfix had done a Cabinair in styrene at some point also. I have a book somewhere thats about bush pilots and one of those is in it..of course in the wreck and walked out section.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:08am
@ Jim: which Guillow a/c are you planning on? I had thought about their F4u, Spitfire, or P-38.

@ Gunny: I don't remember an Airfix kit on the Cabanaire, but it really looks neat and would be my first try at a bi-plane if I am able to locate a plan, if not I will go with another.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:14am
;D  most likely the f4u or maybe a joe ott design.

jim ;D :D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:21am

JIM wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:14am:
;D  most likely the f4u or maybe a joe ott design.

jim ;D :D


So the would leave me free to build the Spitfire from either Guillow or Joe Ott. That helps me to make the decision on which to build.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 21st, 2015 at 10:59am
I am trying to find a old Airfix catalog I have stashed. So I scored at Staples today!! I use my acct for print work for my employer and I had online trouble today with payment. Seems their system is a wreck now, the girl informed me I had 3 free coupons for 1 print job each. I got the 1937 Wakefield done, a P38 blown up to 37" WS, and a Rainbow all free of charge. Turned out to be a good day. Had my Guillows Fortress plan copied for a future build, refusing to build kit due to not wanting to use blow molded parts at this time. Replacements are very scarce.
Big-- Sig Mfg has the Cabinaire kit still for sale or they have the plans in replacement parts section to buy. Didnt see a electronic download though. The Bostonaire might be close also to it and thats buried in RC groups Vintage Section.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 21st, 2015 at 11:45am
Bob...found these old Sig kits for sale of the Cabinaire 29" span : Click Here
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by scigs30 on Dec 21st, 2015 at 11:58am
I have some old modeling books from back in the day and here is some interesting findings....
1. The era you are discussing there is not mention of PVA or wood glues just Balsa Cement from Comet, Testors.
2.  Rubber came from cutting up inner tubes. 
3.  Dope or balsa Cement was used to apply tissue
4. Celotex Tiles were used as building boards, I think they may have had asbestos :-[

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 21st, 2015 at 1:01pm
I couldnt really see asking people to only use white Elmers or buying antique Ambroid for the build.  Or getting into their stash of Dope. I think Elmers white/wood or Duco still stays inline with the build as well as new fangled non cancer causing building boards...lol But anyone is free to use period only specific equipment exclusively. So are you joining in Sciggs or do the LC kits got ya spoiled? ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by scigs30 on Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:52pm
NcGunny,  I will have to see what builds I still have to complete. Lazy cut is nice but I have no problem with printed balsa as long as it is not walnut board that requires a table saw.  Comet was hit and miss with its balsa and of course anything die crunched is horrible as far as weight.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 8:19am
I just got into FF so it never mattered to me if the wood was heavy or not..except for die crunched  diamond Oak..lol.
Its funny because I have Comet kits stashed with great wood, but then some that are horrid. I am cleaning up builds now. FW-190 near done, and a Millenium Falcon still waiting on a few optic cables and a weeks worth of paint and weathering/stains.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 11:53am
Gunny...what is the Millenium Falcon, a kit or something you scratch built from a plan?  My kids and grandsons are Star Wars fanatics.  They have the huge lego Millenium Falcon.  They can't wait to go see the new movie.  Said they'd take Papa along too.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 2:47pm
Sky,
I take the huge kids Hasbro Falcons  and pretty much hack em up to replace the internals with 3D printed parts.
They go from a childs toy to a expensive adult display..lol I put in the computer banks and terminals and run fiber optics so that they blink or stay on. Some people want inflight which is easier than adding the legs like seen in Tattoine space port. Been a bit since my last build, forgot how much I hated the optics and drilling out hair thick holes for the lighting. Lol..but I make a profit on em. 200.00 for falcon stock,200.00 for 3D parts, +$$ if its stationary, 100.00ish for lighting. I charge 1500.00 per build..lol. I used to like doing em, now I find it tedious with 3-4 hundred individual fiber cables.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 6:43pm
Gunny...sounds very interesting.  Like what I used to do with the plastic models back in my IPMS days before kids!  I'd love to see a picture or two if you have them. (come on I know you have them, part of the modeling thing!) ;D ;) 8-)
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 23rd, 2015 at 8:18am
good news cloudsters ::)  xacto blades were invented in the 1930's, i checked on wikipedia.  go ahead and use them.

i don't know if t pins are in the spirit but pushpins certainly were available

jim :D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 23rd, 2015 at 8:22am
:D  i've made up my mind..... Yeay!  i'm gonna do AL CLEAVE'S swoose, a low wing cabin model from 1943/44.  i'm getting an early start as I am away in Feb and March.

JIM ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 23rd, 2015 at 8:40am
I am still looking at plans. TOO MANY DESCISIONS :D

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 23rd, 2015 at 2:03pm
Sky,
  I will post some Falcon pics as soon as my new cell phone month starts. I blew through my LTE data and now.have Sssloowww upload speeds.
Jim,
  I am going to pretend I am the pre war time kid that couldnt afford a Xacto knife. Plus I already built 2 homemade knifes that take single edge blades.
I got my blueprints today from Staples. Beautiful job they did with the pdf files. Figure this prop is going to be laminated balsa. Just replaced my log I used from the ME-262, not in a hurry to buy more blocks..George if ya read this..I need a carving knife from Santa..lol

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 27th, 2015 at 11:35pm
I have had plenty of time over the holidays to eat, scan my important paper work into several flash drives and print out some plans to get an idea which would be most interesting to me and will hold my interest to build for this cookup.

Comet Heinkel
Comet Vought Corsair F4U-1
Comet Vultee Vengeance
Comet Grumman F4F-4 Wildcat 18in
Hawker Hurricane (Stahl)
Curtiss P-40 D (Stahl)
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt  (Stahl)
Fairey Battle  (Megow)
FA Kaydet

After I assemble the plans I will be able to see which will be the one. :o

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 27th, 2015 at 11:56pm
WoW Bob...that's quite a "To Do" list!  Several of those are on my to do list! Nine plans to look over!!!! Ok, several of the Stahl plans I want to do, the Hurricane, the Thunderbolt & I also want to do a Wildcat!

But the Gamma will be first!!!  I can't wait to see what you decide! 
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 28th, 2015 at 12:43am
Tom, after your post re: the Gamma (which I love) I had to look for something that brought out the passion again. So I printed some plans (not all are to be built) to see how they look and which ONE gets built.

Now to cut and tape them together  now :D

Bob


Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 28th, 2015 at 1:29am
They all look like good prospects Bob.  I'll be waiting to see what you decide!
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 28th, 2015 at 7:50am
I am leaning more towards the F4f, Battle, Me109, and the Vengeance since they come with canopy patterns to use either the paper canopy. The final plan appearance will tell which one.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 28th, 2015 at 7:45pm
Gunny was a good boy this year and Santa brought him a new Epson printer!!! I can bluetooth to it,wifi etc. Has scanner,fax usb, micro sd slots and best of all it takes the 11 x 13 paper even got 3  double size black refills and 3 double color refills.Now to find something to print up..lol. like the ME 109 idea Big..been busy with both boys being sick
and now I have caught it. :'(

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 28th, 2015 at 8:14pm
Congrats Gunny on the new printer!  I know you'll be using that alot! Especially nice having the over size paper.
Here's a look at Don McLellan's Bf-109E3 printed tissue on HPA: Click Here check out starting around post #477
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 29th, 2015 at 3:06am
11 x 13  where did you get that sucker  don't u mean 13 x 19  which is a size my hp 9800 could handle ;D  i love a few sheets of that

jim ;D ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Dec 29th, 2015 at 11:50am
Staples Jim. It was $199.99 with a 100.00 instant rebate. Still havent tried it out, busy fixing Xmas lights that didnt work so we bought new replacement sets. (In LED's  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]) She has her own Ladies Den that is pretty much year round Christmas now. So the lights I guess will go to good use anyways. Paper is whatever a yellow legal pad is in
size.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 29th, 2015 at 4:53pm
well SWOOSE is coming along nicely.  I'll have photoes tomorrow or so of the different parts.  This plane is so simple, I built it using push pins instead of my usual T pinns, Elmers White school glue, and cut parts with a razor blade or xacto knife which did exist back then.  I may carve a prop or not, this is not my forte.  it will be covered in coloured tissue and use 2 loops of rubber 1/8 strip.  the windows are covered in cellophane plastic from box wrappers.

rest in peace AL C.

jim ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 29th, 2015 at 10:19pm
It is nice to know that Xacto was around during this period for this cookup. I remember my Dad and I used single edged razor blades, that was all he knew of.

Tom, i emailed a plan that is uglier than a VW, but it just keeps calling out to me along with the Megow Fairey Battle.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 30th, 2015 at 8:25pm
I keep looking at these plans that I have printed out and one item keeps glaring at me. The canopy will be the deciding factor for this cookup since I cannot use the vac I will for the easiest canopy to apply.

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by JIM on Dec 31st, 2015 at 6:23am
Cloudsters introducing the SWOOSE  It's kindy like SPARKY only a low winger

JIM
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 31st, 2015 at 7:32am
WOW! Jim, you are finished and I have not even chosen a plan yet. Too many plans, I should have just let a person who does not build come in and pick one and go for it ;)

Nice job on your SWOOSE, [smiley=thumbsup.gif] will be waiting the progress and flight photos.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 31st, 2015 at 7:45am
Jim, has lit a fire under me to make a choice and I will go with the FAC KAYDET:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2709

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 31st, 2015 at 7:33pm
I started my build (FAC KAYDET) since I will need to wait on the Olive Drab tissue for my P-40.

And am using Elmer's since I dont have any Ambroid or Duco, it is not as bad as I remember.

I picked up the tissue in the photo at my local grocery store and thought it might make a colorful scheme.



Bob
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Jan 1st, 2016 at 6:26am
Nice choice Bob!  Did you increase the plan by 25% as suggested in the user comments section, or will you downsize the wood to fit?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 1st, 2016 at 6:53am
I might end up doing a Jimmie A. instead of the Wakefield right now. I have a whole print wood kit hanging and apparently work isnt going to slow up at all.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 1st, 2016 at 10:16am

staubkorb wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 6:26am:
Nice choice Bob!  Did you increase the plan by 25% as suggested in the user comments section, or will you downsize the wood to fit?


Tom, I did not see the 25% so it is built as is.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 1st, 2016 at 10:44am
OOPS! I just looked the photos and noticed that I made a big NO NO! I used Tpins.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 1st, 2016 at 11:42am
Bob...I think Gunny stated that push pins were available back then!  So you should be ok.  How about it Gunny?
Here's a picture of the "T" pins.

Sky9pilot
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Jan 1st, 2016 at 4:07pm
So, is it OK then to do plan modifications such as laminated outlines and dimensional wood variations, as in that rudder?
  By the way, I have rethought about the Joe Ott plane and instead have decided on the Comet P-6E of 1935, the 15 1/2 inch WS version, not the dimescale plan. I printed off the plans and am salivating over the build. However, the wife insists that I finish off my Rainbow twins first, so it might take a week or two before I can get started.
ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 1st, 2016 at 5:02pm
Ian, I think Tom was using a photo of the P-40 builds as a reference to T-pins. Not sure about the lamination's.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 1st, 2016 at 7:35pm
Ian is right...the photo was to just show the "T-pins" not to suggest laminating any surfaces!!!!
Tom

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 2nd, 2016 at 9:33am
I had finished the fuselage sides and had them half on and half off of the board while cutting out the ribs, and flying surfaces tips when I dropped the Xacto knife. When I reached for the knife my hand came down on a fuse side and broke it :'(. After a day of repair all is good now and here is where I'm at now.

Bob

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 2nd, 2016 at 2:53pm
T-pins were available..not sure if they used them ir not at the time. My elderly aunt said they were a seamstress staole

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 2nd, 2016 at 3:56pm
I have a box of straight pins, but if the "T-pins" are ok, I'll use them, they are a bit easier to use with my thick fingers. 
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 11:28pm
A little more progress on the Kaydet: I found the tissue over the Christmas holidays and thought it would go good with a yellow fuselage.

Bob


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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Jan 4th, 2016 at 1:34am
Good pattern for Klowning around with a Kaydet ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 4th, 2016 at 7:39am

pb_guy wrote on Jan 4th, 2016 at 1:34am:
Good pattern for Klowning around with a Kaydet ;D


Ian, I wanted something different for the Kaydet since it is an unusual shaped airplane with a small wing. It should be good for the small flying area that I have here.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Jan 4th, 2016 at 10:14am
I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. I like that tissue pattern because it is a fun thing and airplanes are a fun subject.
ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 4th, 2016 at 10:44am
Ian, I took no offense I knew what you meant the tissue does remind my of a clown now that you mentioned it. I use to fly an CL airplane called the Clown, great flyer and fun. BTW I have tough skin and toes also ;D

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 4th, 2016 at 4:00pm
Bob,
Love the tissue...it'll look great with a yellow fuselage!
Tom

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 4th, 2016 at 10:54pm
Ive been working on the stab (photos later) and looked at the plan then noticed I have not given much thought to the landing gear. OUCH!

The pile of scrap wood is the beginning of the nose bolck

Bob
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 13th, 2016 at 1:07pm
T pins are okay to use. They were available then. So the Feb kick off is almost here. I cleared out the falcon and put away the Focke Wolfie till later. I am going to cut a paste some of the guys stuff from Facebook as they email it to me. Iwanted to start early but its just not possible atm. So I will build what I want to take to Geneseo this year,I might be able to get wood cut etc. early. Hoping to get the Wakefield and Senator done and finish detailing Wids C130 then its the ME-262. I think I promised a Xmas color scheme so I have been working on a tissue design for the Wakefield..lol. Everyones stuff is looking great atm..Btw..I saw that tissue design a few days ago..that should look nice.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Jan 13th, 2016 at 5:40pm
> thought it would go good with a yellow fuselage

Should be easy to  find!      By the way, you're not thinking of using that rear hook for the motor, are you?   A regular tube/dowel positioned in front of that, maybe  under or before the stab LE, will give more rubber room, less chance of bunching.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 13th, 2016 at 7:57pm
applehoney, the peg holder is already in place. I tried the rear hook once and that was enough.

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 18th, 2016 at 11:16pm
I am not sure if I will go with a 7" or 8" prop yet. The 7" seems too small for this airplane.

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 19th, 2016 at 12:49pm
I got both the Senator and Wakefield props cut out of their blocks,just need to trace patterns and cut away the extra and start sanding em. Got both whittled away at work under the scrutiny of my boss. He would walk by and pick one upand check it against the print..lol never realized how big a 13" prop is.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 21st, 2016 at 7:44am
I finished the landing gear for the Kaydet and covered the fuselage with some domestic tissue (yellow) but I sure is delicate and need to recover the bottom of the fuse since several areas separated/tore or just did not come out the way I wanted. PHOTOS SOON.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 21st, 2016 at 10:53am
I got my desk cleaned off this morning (a small victory) found a Duco bottle had turned into jelly inside. 2 hours later,a needle drill bit, Testors cleaning wire, and the inside wire from a bread wrapper and the bottle is usable again. Bonus is the sloshed Acetone permeating the air. Of course I couldt find stuff because I placed it where "I knew where it would be for next time". Then got reminded I need to do our taxes today before anything else got done. Hoping to get started today on at least stripping stringers. No pics cuz phone camera is dead for good now. Got a week till I can throw this HTC against the wall and use.my new Note 5. 😎

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 21st, 2016 at 2:23pm
Gunny, that's no fun :D.

I tore the tissue off that was covering my kaydet (it was just too delicate) every time I sprayed 50/50 it would tear if I touched the wet tissue. So I pulled out some Esaki to cover the a/c.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 1:05pm
Big, did you use the Polka Dot stuff from the Dollar Store? I bought a bunch of clearance Xmas tissue that was the same manufacturer. Maybe I better do a test run on a frame first.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 1:09pm

NcGunny wrote on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 1:05pm:
Big, did you use the Polka Dot stuff from the Dollar Store? I bought a bunch of clearance Xmas tissue that was the same manufacturer. Maybe I better do a test run on a frame first.


Gunny, the polk a dot tissue is good and was from a Hallmark display at the local grocer. I do not remember where i bought this yellow tissue. So yes I would do a test.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 3:19pm
Gunny... I use a bottle like this picture for my diluted Duco.  If I don't keep it sealed I experience the same drying up of the glue.

By the way, the glue application that works best for me is to apply glue on both parts to be glued.  Let dry for a while then apply a small amount on one piece and place them together and pin tightly together till dry!!

You can get it at Volare/Shorty's Basement Click Here
Sky9pilot
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 22nd, 2016 at 3:37pm
Sky, they are the same bottles I bought from George at Volare. My room is cool and no sunlight comes in. It just turns into a amber colored mess.
Big, The stuff I got wasnt Hallmark but its the same exact pattern as your tissue. Might be a knock off although I cant believe there is a ton of tissue manufactures though.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 7:58am
I had completely forgotten about the people that RC. I had several emails from them because they wanted to build but it didnt mention RC guys. From today on RC guys are included..BUT...if your covering is anything other than tissue or silks we will accept the final shots of your complete bones. The idea was to use only available material and items of the time period. Even though alot of stuff is no longer available,we all get the idea.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 10:59am
I recovered the Kaydet with Yellow Esaki tissue and looks so much better than the domestic I first covered with. the first 2 photo is while finishing the landing gear. the 3rd is with the domestic tissue and the last is with Esaki.

Bob
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 12:10pm
Looking great Bob...the polka dots kinda look like jelly beans!  I saw a Reno Racer P-51 done up in Jelly Belly jelly bean scheme!  I liked it!
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 1:32pm

Sky9pilot wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 12:10pm:
Looking great Bob...the polka dots kinda look like jelly beans!  I saw a Reno Racer P-51 done up in Jelly Belly jelly bean scheme!  I liked it!
Sky9pilot


Tom, the tissue is more like jelly beans and I am thinking of useing it for either a design or trim on the wing.

BTW, ive been trying to locate in the article where the plans were supposed to be blown up by 125%, but cannot find this.

Printed at 100% the wingspan is 18 3/8"
Printed at 125% the wingspan is 23 1/2"

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 2:01pm
Bob,
If the plans were printed in a magazine article, it may have been in the article and printed on the edge of the magazine provided plans.  Which may have gotten deleted in the reproduction.  Unless there is a legend or scale showing inches that have to be enlarged to true "inch" size that might be the reason.

Here's the Jelly Belly Bean P-51D
Sky9pilot
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 24th, 2016 at 2:12pm
Tom, thanks for the photos of the JELLY BEAN P-51 they were great!

I may just change my build due to this KAYDETS wing not agreeing to build correctly. I now have pulled out a Megows Fairey Battle and Hawker Hurricane and plan on flipping a coin to see which will be the build that I will continue for this cookup.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 25th, 2016 at 9:30pm
OK! Ive thrown the wing into the dust bin (thanks Pete) and started a different build:
MEGOWS FAIREY BATTLE 30in ws
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Jan 26th, 2016 at 6:59am

bigrip74 wrote on Jan 25th, 2016 at 9:30pm:
OK! Ive thrown the wing into the dust bin (thanks Pete) and started a different build:
MEGOWS FAIREY BATTLE 30in ws

I plead "NOT guilty"  ;) ;D!

What span is "your" model supposed to be?  The plan on Outer Zone (click) is ~20 inches.  In the comments section of the main page there are indications that the wing might be 25 inches - based on the wood size shown against the actual measurements (25% INCREASE).  Line weights have to be taken into account, plus distortion that HAS occurred over the years.

The length of the fuselage from the front of the first former to the rudder post is about 14".  As stubby as the plane looks in the file photos, a span of 18.xx inches seems reasonable, but the root chord seems WAY off at 3.8 inches.  The wing saddle is only 3.3 inches.  The photos do NOT indicate a leading-edge overhang.

I think that a "TLAR" decision would be acceptable as was often the case with plans-built models back then (and even today).  Would be a shame to not complete this cutie...

EDIT: I blew up the first photo of the Kaydet article, and there IS a leading edge overhang.  The short center section ribs do match the saddle.  The wing "should" work as drawn...  The plane was just built for "robustness" (and says so in the article).

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:40am
Pete, I was referring to "DUST BIN". My Grandmother called them that also. No finger pointing re: that stupid wing, I picked the KAYDET all by myself  :-[.

So far the fuselage for the Battle is coming along  ok and I like the looks of the wing construction (IMHO, hope I don't mess this one up its an easy wing build).

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Jan 26th, 2016 at 8:14am

bigrip74 wrote on Jan 26th, 2016 at 7:40am:
Pete, I was referring to "DUST BIN". My Grandmother called them that also. No finger pointing re: that stupid wing, I picked the KAYDET all by myself  :-[.

So far the fuselage for the Battle is coming along  ok and I like the looks of the wing construction (IMHO, hope I don't mess this one up its an easy wing build).

Bob

Gotcha!  Dustbin is what my Mom called my room during and after a building session ;).  She even bought me a dedicated vacuum cleaner (ElecroLux!) - an expensive proposition back in the 50's.  My Dad nearly flipped out, til she threatened to make him do the cleaning ;D.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 26th, 2016 at 8:18am
Pete, I just measured the ws on the plan and they came out to 26" the cord at the root is 5 3/4". The ws noted on the file was 30", but I did see any % either up or down.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 26th, 2016 at 8:19am
My Grandmother was a Kirby vac person.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 27th, 2016 at 11:13am
I had to put my P-40 away since my brother and I have been dealing with our mother who was taken to a rehab facility and I did not wish for the P-40 to be sat on again :'(.

Any way I worked on the Megow Fairey Battle until it was time to attach the stringers (1/16) there is not hard 1/16 balsa in my stash. So! The Battle is waiting on more wood now.
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Jan 27th, 2016 at 12:06pm
I empathize with you, Bob, as our family also had to deal with our mother when her dementia took over. Finding the right institution to take care of her until her death was traumatic enough, let alone trying to explain to her what was going on and why we had to sell her home. Fortunately, I had obtained a power of attorney before her dementia was too bad.
ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Feb 1st, 2016 at 1:59pm
13" Hipperson pattern prop. Starting the Senetor tomorrow.
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:52pm
Did you rough carve that or is it a machine cut blank from Volare?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 6:54am
Thats Georges rough blank. I needed one for reference when I carved mine, I do believe when I ordered it I thought it was a Godden blank. Didnt really matter because it made for good reference as I cried every time I lopped off a buck worth of balsa on mine..lol.
So I have templates for my final blade shapes Colonel, does it matter how you lay them up on the blanks?(this could be a not worded correct question) I made sheet styrene templates, when traced on my blanks how do you lay up the template for each side? Tracing on top of one side..then bottom of other. Since they r both the same I cant see that it would matter. But I am still bitching at the cost of those slabs of balsa. Even now it would have been way cheaper to have just bought carved Goddens.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 8:23am
Gunny,
On the two I carved for the Senator I used the Godden blade pattern for both just because I liked the shape. I cut it out of cereal box cardboard and made a few slits in it perpendicular to the blade axis. I marked the center of each blade tip on the blank then laid the pattern on one blade and transferred the mark to the pattern. This helps keep both sides symmetrical. I marked the patterns on the faces of the blades, flipping the pattern over for the opposing blade. By "face" of the blade I mean the side towards the nose button, as the "back" of the blade actually faces forward. Prop terminology...go figure. The faces of the blades will pretty much be left alone unless you sand in some undercamber so I think it's preferable to marking the backs as they will get more work done to them. It probably doesn't matter which side you lay out, as long as it's the same side on both blades. Doing the face of one and the back of the other is asking for trouble in my opinion.  I feel your pain on expensive waste. I started out with 100 gram blocks and ended up with 10 gram propellers.

I believe those machine cut prop blanks are true helical pitch, whereas the the hand carved ones have some washout in the tips. This supposedly makes for a more efficient prop. Personally I'd like to test a Minimum Induced Loss / Larrabee blade shape on one of these as they require a true helical pitch. Probably not a good idea for you if you just want to get your Senator in the air.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Feb 4th, 2016 at 10:23am
Col. I dont think I worded it correct?. If you look straight down at the pilot hole. The left hand side of the blank has a side you can see. I trace pattern on that side. Then looking at right hand side of the hole I trace the pattern on the side I cant see? This will give me my rough shape correct?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Feb 4th, 2016 at 12:25pm
Sorry if I confused you by telling you to flip the pattern over. That's misleading. Easier to do than explain clearly. If you sight straight through the hole you can see either both fronts or both backs at the same time (shouldn't matter which with a helical machine cut blank.) Mark the sides you can see at the same time. This will be the faces (side towards the model.)  So, they'll be on opposite sides of the twisted blank, but you'll be able to see both at once.

Here's a picture of the last one I carved. You can see both pattern markings are visible from one side.

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 4th, 2016 at 8:05pm
Colonel! another great looking prop, you make it look so easy.

Ive finished attaching the stringers to the fuse

bob
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 7th, 2016 at 8:54pm
a little progress on the fuse tail cone and the nose.

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 7th, 2016 at 8:56pm
Megow Fairey Battle continued

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 11th, 2016 at 8:20pm
a couple more progress photos.

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 13th, 2016 at 5:23pm
I went to the local Hobby Town (not a hobby shop by my standards) to pickup some hard 1/16 wood to start the wing and tail feathers. I found what I went for and they had a whole stack of "C" grain balsa and some great looking soft "B" that I snatched up. I have been going to this store since 2012 for any quick supplies like glue, T pins and such. Never seen quality wood like this before. WOW!

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Feb 13th, 2016 at 7:52pm
Sometimes that's the way it happens. They get in a shipment and don't even know what they got, just balsa wood to them.  You're very fortunate.  I'd keep checking in from time to time.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Feb 14th, 2016 at 6:43pm
This happens alot at my local AC Moore Big. I check in twice a week and score lots of C grain. Its hit and miss though because the majority is Midwest balsa. But the doll house section is another vendor and I can pull 4 sheets out of a 12 ct.pack. I just noticed the Midwest odds n ends packs are now balsa/basswood combos. I alway called em the sweepings from the floor.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 16th, 2016 at 11:30pm
The wing is taking a lot of time to construct so I started looking for a color scheme to apply to the Fairey Battle and came up with these:

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Feb 17th, 2016 at 3:00am
With the British flying a lot of night missions the black ventral surfaces.  I kinda like the green on dark green.  Lots go with the brown and green so I vote for the two greens!  As if that makes a difference :D ;D ;) it's your plane do what suits your fancy!
Tom

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:42am
I like the green and brown upper surfaces (since I can find the brown easier than green) over the black.

All I need to do is follow Terry's example on attaching the two colors in a camo scheme.

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:53pm
I found some more camo schemes that interest me?

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Feb 18th, 2016 at 11:09pm
Bob... you know me, I'd go for the yellow and black scheme!
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Feb 20th, 2016 at 10:14am
I tossed the wing for the FA KAYDET and kept the fuse. After looking at the fuse this morning I think i will build my own wing to complete it just so I can go a fly this airplane (not for this cookup)

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Mar 4th, 2016 at 9:08pm
UPDATE: MEGOW FAIREY BATTLE BUILD

I worked on the left wing, but the right will need to wait for the board to clear first.

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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 7th, 2016 at 8:46am
Official kick off is today for me. Enter the Wakefield (full size) and I am killing off my Christmas build also with the Wakefield. New scales, new building board,also bought some new pins. No prop yet for it though and wishing I had a foldable deal. But they look kinda beyond me to decipher at this point.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Mar 7th, 2016 at 10:06am

NcGunny wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 8:46am:
Official kick off is today for me. Enter the Wakefield (full size) and I am killing off my Christmas build also with the Wakefield. New scales, new building board,also bought some new pins. No prop yet for it though and wishing I had a foldable deal. But they look kinda beyond me to decipher at this point.

Which Wake are you dong?

Suggestion to all...
With all the different models on this (and other similar) thread, it might be a good idea to start each message with updates to your build with "My Maytag Flyer  ;D" (model name tho, please) so that anyone visiting doesn't have to wade thru 135 pages to know what plane is being described.  Normal replies ("that's nice", etc.) don't need the clarification unless one wants to add one.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:24pm
Updated..Its the 1939 Morgan Wakefield. 41" WS. Already had a setback with a small avalanche that happened on the building bench. ----folks...rearranging the junk on your bench isnt cleaning up..lol

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Mar 8th, 2016 at 2:32am

NcGunny wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:24pm:
Updated..Its the 1939 Morgan Wakefield. 41" WS. Already had a setback with a small avalanche that happened on the building bench. ----folks...rearranging the junk on your bench isnt cleaning up..lol

Been there, am there ::) - WAIT, where the he!! IS my workbench??? :o ::) :D :D

Where did you find the plan?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 8th, 2016 at 9:42am
I had salvaged the plan from my first crushed delivery from Easybuilt. The plan and a few odds and ends were able to be used.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:45pm
Half the ribs of the Wakefield coming in at 3.8 grams. Got a sick child so going is slow today. Does anybody suggest lightning cuts?
--Edit...All my ribs are now done. Final weight came in at 6.9g
20160308_144102-768x1365.jpg (184 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Mar 9th, 2016 at 4:04am

NcGunny wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:45pm:
Half the ribs of the Wakefield coming in at 3.8 grams. Got a sick child so going is slow today. Does anybody suggest lightning cuts?
--Edit...All my ribs are now done. Final weight came in at 6.9g

Generally not worth the trouble.  LOTS of tedious work for very little real gain/savings.  Spend more effort with wood selection.  That Wake is an "8 ounce" model (minimum weight for the class back then) so a few grams aren't going to matter much.

Kids need more attention when they're sick since they don't realize what's happening.  Priority #1.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Mar 9th, 2016 at 10:02am
Almost everything I've read about it says to forgo the lightening holes in structures. You're much better off to use lighter wood without the holes, both time and strength wise. Since the first half of your ribs weigh more than the second half I'd sort through them and use the heaviest ones near the center of the wing for balance, or at a dihedral joints for strength.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 9th, 2016 at 11:20am
It wasnt quite half. I had 4 extra ribs on the 1st batch I believe. Going to just weigh the same size ribs and try to weight match them. I do have 2 of the largest R1's that managed to have been placed in the heavy section of the sheet. I will keep these for the dihedral joint. Hoping to finish all the fuse and wing cutouts today. From the looks of the tail section I might laminate it.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 9th, 2016 at 5:17pm
Looks like laminating the rudders may violate Fac rules. And I already built the form.......sigh

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 9th, 2016 at 6:56pm
Yep, if you're going to compete you have to follow the rules to compete!  Glad you caught it before you got her finished and brought to a contest.

I look forward to your progress.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 10th, 2016 at 9:58am
Its kinda funny that they used 2 solid balsa pieces for the rudders. So, I am going off the 1st ruined Easy Built kit plans. The rudder explanation is vague and misleading in a fashion. "Says the rudder section comes in 2 pieces and needs to be glued together and sanded smooth before mounting"...thats it! Now most of this kit had the wood cracked,etc. I found 2 sheets of 1/8th balsa in there. The plan doesnt give the size of wood to use but deduction would say its 1/8th inch. Also the 1st page of plan shows a complete stick plane..(wait for drum roll) the rudders are framed up on it,not solid balsa.
  --Updated... I emailed Dave Mitchell due to reading the new 2016-2017 rules and cant find last years lamination rules in there. Unless it was in a statement thats like: A plane cant deviate from building materials or construction methods of the given plan.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 14th, 2016 at 8:12am
I made my rudders out of the solid balsa just in case..each weighs 3.5g. But my form was kept for lamination because of the 1st response being they thought it was okay to laminate. I helped the nephew this weekend on his Wakefield...I dislike the plans alot now. The printwood was decent and his Notcher worked great...its just to bad the parts are nowhere close to the plan size. If I would have seen this I would have made fish mouthed wing ribs. Pics later today.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 14th, 2016 at 12:33pm
Got the boys tail on the board. I figure we sanded apprx. 1/16th off both ends of the LE and TE  to get them to match the plan.
20160314_142658-1600x900.jpg (310 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 14th, 2016 at 6:56pm
Made it through the Wakefields stab and threw down the wing sections. This plan has you splicing sections for the TE and LE to get the full length....not a overly huge burden until I tried out one of the ribs....!!! Once again the print wood is either wrong or the plan is way off. If the spars are placed on the plan the center stringer will have to be moved back a 1/16th or little more to line up. It looks like the wingtip sections are correct though so I am thinking if I move the center to line up,that will throw the tips off (although a 1/16 isnt that noticable) or I may cut new ribs which will fit correctly.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 14th, 2016 at 7:54pm
Often times if the print wood sheet is separate from the plan, it will be full size and the plan may be reduced some percentage.   

I will sometimes just sand the trailing edge of the rib to fit the trailing edge and then sand the slope of the rib to the trailing edge.  If this makes sense.

this way you basically keep the airfoil with just a taper to the trailing edge to be a bit steeper. 

Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Mar 15th, 2016 at 7:11am
gunny, is that glue dispenser working for you?

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 15th, 2016 at 7:52am
Big, it works fine as long as I am building constantly. If I know I cant build for 2 days I dump it out and clean em up. I bought a total of 4 now from Volare. This is the 1st bottle that turned into the mess from sitting to long.
Sky.. These plans are Zerox'd copies of who knows how many generations. The wood in the boys kit was good wood, just bad printing. I decided to move the center stringer back to make the ribs work.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 17th, 2016 at 8:42am
Update...The rear stab on the Wakefield is coming in at a porky 4.7g without the fuse braces and rudders on yet. The center wing section is a portly 8.9g without the TE being sanded to shape and fuse braces. Started on the wing tip sections and once again this plan has only has 1 usable wing diagram to build from. Since there wasnt enough kit wood, the boy has been learning to strip balsa.Actually everything we have stripped has come from sheets of broken stuff I buy on clearance at AC Moore. Today he is learning the technique of soaking balsa to form the wings LE.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by lincoln1 on Mar 19th, 2016 at 2:56pm
Maybe it's too late, but I don't think anyone mentioned that Golden Age Reproductions has quite a few kits that are reproductions of old printwood kits, much like the ones at Penn Valley Hobbies. http://goldenagereproductions.com/ Good kits with nice materials, but some of the older designs might be easier with a bit of tweaking, especially with nose plugs, etc. At least one, the Seversky P-35, needs a bit more dihedral but then flies quite well. GAR, aka Jim Fiorello, also has a large number, perhaps hundreds, of cleaned up reproductions of old plans available. Plus very nice tissue. I'm biased, though, because our club meets in his basement.

I think I may have only built one, but I own several, and they all look good. I built the P-35, but converted it to an S2 racer using the 3 views from the plastic kit from Williams Brothers. It was my first really successful rubber scale model. It's led a charmed life. I still have it after maybe 20 years, and it's still flyable, though it could really use some repairs and possibly complete re-covering.

I highly recommend his plans book. It doesn't have all the plans, but it has a lot. About 135. Really nice printing, so I'm sure you could enlarge them and build from them. It came out in 1975, so I think there are probably a lot of other plans acquired since then, including the elusive Comet C-1 Pursuit.  http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7739159

I know this sounds like an ad, but I have no financial interest. I may have been warped by repeated exposure to the inventory. I wish someone who was really into it would come along and buy the business. Jim would like to sell it to someone who would keep it going.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 19th, 2016 at 6:49pm
I've never heard anything but good regarding Golden Age Reproductions kits.  Several have been the articles of builds on HPA .  My Bf-109 E3 build was based on a redraw of one of their plans that Balsabug did.  I'd recommend them as well.

Hope Jim can find someone to carry on his fantastic work!
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 20th, 2016 at 6:41am
I have bought a few GAR kits and they were all great. Plans were topnotch and wood was great. I can get away with so/so wood,but when the plan is junk... "I always felt that most gripes about kits being bad is caused by a bad plan and directions for building" We all realize exactly how much money is contained in a kit in wood etc. Example--- The kit for my nephew probably contains 12.00 in material, it cost 36.00 w/o shipping. And the plan is the worst I have come across in quite awhile sorry to say. I even had to post on HPA on how to taper the wings TE and how far the taper runs to the tips.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 20th, 2016 at 4:14pm
Wakefield Update: We added 1 extra wing rib to try and induce a turn in this beast. Also going to add a 1/8th inch washout also. My nephew has given up on balsa planes and liberated a few of my plastic kits, this wasnt his 1st balsa plane but probably for the time being his last.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 21st, 2016 at 7:58am
Started on the fuse last night.
20160321_095621-640x360.jpg (42 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Mar 21st, 2016 at 10:01am
Gunny, neat looking plan. Which Wake is it?

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 21st, 2016 at 11:29am
Bob, its the 1939 Morgan Wakefield. 45" WS and 31" fuse...my wife just shakes her head at the size of this monster..lol
I have finished the 1st half of the fuse and have a fuse sandwich going on, except this one I sandwiched some wax paper between the 2 halves. The plan is slightly out of scale so building them seperately just couldnt happen.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 21st, 2016 at 1:38pm
Here we are with the fuse sandwich with a wax paper middle. I dont care for the rear motor mount on the plan so a alternate needs to be found soon. The plan calls for 2 plates in the rear with a bent piece of wire to hold the motor. Will take a pic as soon as the last fuse dries.
20160321_153338-640x360.jpg (41 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 5:50am
I finished the fuse sides last night on the Wakefield. Including a pic of that rear motor mount.
20160322_074550-800x450.jpg (47 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 9:43am
Time for the cross pieces of the fuse to get installed. Sticking with the original theme of this build..no fuse jig will be used... :'( Still debating on the best way to approach it, I mocked up the sides upside down for the moment. Probably the ideal way would be to cut all crosspieces first since the sides come out rather good using the sandwich method. Will post once I get it started with a shot.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 1:03pm
>Bob, its the 1939 Morgan Wakefield. 45" WS

Actually, it's not.   It's Easybuilt's  "Canadian Wakefield" which incorporates their own design revisions and differs from the Morgan.  Plans for the '39 Morgan were drawn from the original airframe, available by courtesy of the family who retained his effects, by David Owen in 2001  and certainly differ from those in your photos.

Morgan span is 41",  airfoil is flat bottomed,  fins from 1/16" sheet, nose formers were angular, fuselage from 1/8" sq.    Easybuilt increased the span to 45", reduced chord slightly, changed the airfoil to undercambered and changed the fuselage to 5/32" square.  The block for the original prop blade differs very significantly from that of the kit.  Other small structural differences exist  between the two.

It may be that the original Easybuilt drawings have been further modified by subsequent owners of the company;  I do not have a copy of their plan, whether past or present , just that of the Morgan.

Do sheet in that rear bay and use a regular tubing 'peg' to retain the motor instead of that wire hook. Incidentally, though that hook is indicated on the Morgan its attachment is much more substantial than that shown in your photo.

The Canadian Wakefield is as purported  by Easybuilt ... the '39 Morgan it ain't!  Which is no reflection upon the present owners of the company, of course  - long before their time.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 1:13pm
PS.    Forgot to mention - the Morgan does not have diagonal fuselage bracing and the prop is a single blade folder of 19.25" diameter.

David Owen could find no confirmation that Morgan had any input to the revisions of his design as kitted but, equally, such can not be refuted.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 1:21pm
I kept the wings from the plan..but went with 1/8"  fuse. I wish I could show ya all the plans cuz they definately look like a zerox of some beat up originals. My next one will have the flat bottom ribs though and a few other improvements. I actually had to call Dave and ask about a few things on the plan because it just didnt make sense with my printing smears on the plan. He is a helpful guy, and maybe we had just got a bad kit Apple.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 1:25pm
Here is what is on the cover Apple. The plan actually has a single blade folder on it and plan has bracing as being optional.
20160322_152412-800x450.jpg (83 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 2:19pm
Certainly some poetic license in that box description - but am equally sure it was written in good faith in these latter years.   ' Based upon Richard Morgan's .....' would be more correct.   Would be interesting to have Dave's comments sometime.

I have seen an Easybuilt plan in the dim past - maybe 25+ years ago perhaps; don't recall any diagonals in the fuselage then but...  amendments to old plans are still being made in these times and eventually get accepted as authentic.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 22nd, 2016 at 3:45pm
PM sent Apple.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 11:09am
Been working on the fuse when I can. What is done is weighing in at 13g. Still no prop yet for it, I dont think the box plastic one will cut it.(Hoping the Easter bunny brings me a folder this year) If anybody thinks its coming in under weight give a shout because I replaced alot of kit wood with my own.
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Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 12:07pm
Looks great Gunny!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 5:39pm
Nice work, Gunny - good bones.  Me, I'd omit the optional diagonals  but that's just a reaction from a contest flyer; for sport purposes it's fine 'as is'  though I do wonder if they will move the CG too far back and require nose ballast to compensate.  A little sheeting at the nose would add a lot of strength and ease handling; that area takes a lot of stress.

What diameter f/w prop is supplied with this kit?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by cdwebb on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 6:17pm
Nice stick work, Gunny. I built the EB half-size version. Since yours is twice the size, it should fly even better. And if it does, your in for a treat! You'll be RUINED!! :)

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 6:54pm
Apple, they supply a 12" prop and mine has a bunch of flash and a ridge on one of the blades. I was thinking I might have to sheet a little bit. The nose diagram on the plan is pitiful so I guess I will have to look at some pics and wing it.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 9:35pm
Suggest you remove the diags in front bay, insert uprights and cross pieces in the middle of said bay and then fill in between them to nose with firm 1/16" sheet or medium 3/32"    All four sides; the upper stringers can go on the curved formers afterwards.  The nose takes a lot of stress especially when putting in noseblock after winding the motor - and stronger on impact.   Not that there'll be any of those, will there ???

A 12" plastic prop is quite inadequate for any real performance and, given a sufficiently strong motor for the size of model, power will run off very quickly. The prop is likely low pitched,  which makes things  worse.    Original prop was around 19" ... a 15" would at least give some reasonable sport flying.     Check with George Schroeder at Volare Products to see what balsa unfinished freewheelers he might have available - maybe able to do a decent folder.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 24th, 2016 at 8:32am
I cut out the diagonals and inserted some hard 1/8" I had. Unfortunately I had done the top stringers last night before bed. Will sheet the bottom 1st bay also. I saw a 16" folder unfinished on Volare,might be worth looking into.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 26th, 2016 at 8:08am
Presently I have the noseblock done, still havent finished the TE of wings yet. All the bones are coming in at 1.35 oz. to date.
Update--- Just drove 20 miles to WalMart to buy Silly Putty..crazy all anybody has is no name junk

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:28am
Decided against the rear windows that have the 1 1/4" circle opening. The added weight was only .1g for 8th inch balsa framework but they just didnt make the cut. The side window will now be square and took Apples advice to reinforce the upright under the wing. I honestly dislike this plan because it should clearly state what they improved upon from the original. I also havent done the TE of wings cuz the under camber ribs are bugging me atm. They will probably stay and I will use this plane as my test mule for the electronic DT at some point.So here is a pic of todays weight. This included fuse,wings,stab,ail's and nose.
20160328_091505-1024x576.jpg (122 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:02pm
MAJOR SETBACK--- So I stated earlier that the plan is very poor in my opinion. I knew when I spoke with Dave on the phone something was still wrong even though I was reassured it was okay. Maybe I didnt state myself clear enough or maybe it was something else. Here is the scenario. The wing part of the plan is very crappy. It is designed with center section and wing tip sections marked with A and B ends at the dieh. From looking at them a person would naturally build on the plan and not cut it up. Now we come to the printing skid mark..it naturally looks like a printing mistake happened on the plan,and this is the 1st kit I have built where the friggin dieh. wing sections are different length!!!!
Why the hell would you peddle off a plan with the printing streak like it is and have people think the wing tips arent the same length...especially when there is more than enough room on the plan to make the center section longer and both wing tip section the same.!!!! Now I have to build a new tip section or find a way to splice in 2" of length in the worst spot. >:( The attached pic is in focus.

20160329_153557-1600x900.jpg (134 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 29th, 2016 at 9:31pm
Having never built this kit or model and not seeing the plan before I'm not much help.  I have heard of wing panels being shorter than each other to facilitate a particular flying pattern.  Don't know it this was involved at all.  Sorry you've had so much trouble with this kit.  Hope you work it out.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 30th, 2016 at 6:02am
I did the unthinkable and lengthened the main center wing section instead of the tip section. All that extra work just for 1" of length.I had to add a extra spar to help with the splice which was  done sneakily,but this now negates my other wing rib which was added on the right side to help with turns.Such is life....I will be happy now to just get it covered and move on to a new build.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Mar 30th, 2016 at 6:37am
You just created extra work for yourself, Gunny.  This is an example of the disadvantages of worldwide communication as I've just noticed this.

The 1 inch section that doesn't seem to fit is just that.  It is not part of the construction!  The lower section in the photo is a SECTIONAL cut-off of the center panel showing the last rib bay to the dihedral break - OR, it could be that the dihedral break is at the point where the small arrows are at the bottom of the picture.  The tip panel ends at the location above that 1 inch oddity.

The confusing issue comes from the joined sections.

At least that's the way I read the small area depicted - not enough info...

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 30th, 2016 at 7:12am
Staub, the center panel was built on the plan. The right side wing tip section was fine to build on the plan, the left side when looked at looks like it is missing a rib which led me to believe it was gone to help induce turning. The left side is the mess. Especially since there is plenty of room on the plan to not make this tip section different than the other. Its fine..I will finish it and move on. But yes thats where I ended my wing was at that oddity (smudge) I assumed it was some Zerox mistake because Dave told me on the phone his plan on the PC didnt show the smudge.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Mar 30th, 2016 at 7:40am
Gunny, I like that what you have chosen for a build and have been following your progress. IMHO you've done pretty good.

David, your usual workmanship shows in your photos posted. Keep up the good work.

As for my Megow Fairey Battle, I had took a hiatus but have returned to working on it. I applied some domestic yellow tissue due not being able to find my Esaki stash. We will see if it works. The fuselage has been difficult trying to figure out how to apply this tissue with its curves.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 30th, 2016 at 9:02am
Bob, I just got my wing all built and decided to look for my Esaki..cant find that box atm either,afraid to txt the wife due to her flipping out about having so much stuff...lol!! I wanna sheet the wing a tad anyways so it can wait until I can figure out the wording to ask her if she has seen it.
20160330_101341-1024x576.jpg (159 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Mar 30th, 2016 at 10:42am
Gunny, Tom gave me several alternatives and HALLMARK was one that has tissues that is pretty good IMHO.

Your airplane bones are looking good [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 30th, 2016 at 12:03pm
I bought a bunch of Hallmark tissue after Xmas that was on clearance. It actually works real good, way better than some of my Dollar Store,DG endeavors. I have a big box of Esaki I bought from a hobby shop that was closing, I know she moved it..not sure where...BTW..I once caught her wrapping some present with my Esaki (almost lost my mind)!!!
Update: Finished the wing today and a little sheeting. Bones are coming in at 1.89 oz. Just had a idea and weighed the kit plastic wheels and they both weigh .5 oz for both.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:20am
The tail on the Wakefield is supposed to have a 1/16x 1/8 strip cemented on it after covering. From the looks of the plan this is supposed to raise it enough to be even with the back of the fuse..didnt like the looks of it. Instead I cemented the strips to the framework with a notch for the tail spar to set down into as a index and it can be moved a little bit for alignment. Made some basswood reinforcements for the motor peg. Now I just have to drill for the tail holdown pegs. Been slow going due to going to AC Moore last night to use up gift certificates from them...thats another post itself.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 1st, 2016 at 7:46am
Well! I took the domestic tissue off my Battle and ordered some more Esaki to cover the airplane. So now just wait and move on to another build.

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 1st, 2016 at 9:05am
I found my box Esaki last night. Also the kit wheels are unusable at this time due to having been twisted off the sprue trees by whomever. I would say they did it while the wheels and trees were still warm, the wheels are warped out of shape and I cant even sand them due to locating pins inside and big holes where the runners attached to the half shells. Looks like I am going to whittle some out.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 7:51am
I installed some windows last night..unfortunately I am almost done with pics until its covered..I cant give away my cover motif..lol!! I put up a final bones shot today and thats it until covered.
Update--- I should have thought out the windows better to install, the framework is at odd angles. Gunna have to go to a  2nd plan on these.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 10:59am
I'm still looking for that final bones pic....????

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 11:25am
Here are some not so final bones pics.

FB021.jpg (162 KB | )
FB022.jpg (173 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 12:24pm
bones look good...interesting spar arrangement on those wing panels.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 12:43pm

Sky9pilot wrote on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 12:24pm:
bones look good...interesting spar arrangement on those wing panels.
Sky9pilot


this after I removed the domestic yellow tissue >:(that did not allow me to go over the compound curves of the fuse. The spar arrangement is to keep the wing rigid with the wood :P used for the ribs. We will see if it all works out or if i go onto another build. ;D

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 3:22pm
Forgot to rig up the rudders for the shot..also had to leave off landing gear due to it being part of the motif. Decided to use the kit wheels also as part of the landing ( fill in blank). I have never built this kind of gear before so its a "on the fly build" . Each kit wheel took me about 1 hour each just to make em servicable, waiting on a delivery now of rubber and aluminum tubing. Still havent ordered a prop yet from Volare..maybe tonite. :o
Big...would it be easier to cover it wet? Bones look very good on it. I cant do wet tissue..just makes for a mess when I have tried it.
20160331_134539-1024x576.jpg (136 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 4:03pm
Love the shape of that wing!!! Makes me want to do a glider with wings like that!!
As far as the wet process, get yourself an old hairspray atomizer bottle rinse it out thoroughly and fill it with isopropyl alcohol (some dilute 50/50 with water) I don't because I don't want the water to shrink it that much.  I buy a couple of bottles at the dollar store.  I spread the tissue I've cut for mounting on a towel and spritz it with the alcohol and if necessary respritz it as I apply it on the model.  I've had pretty good success this way.  I've even re-spritzed and repositioned the tissue if I didn't like the way it looks.  The alcohol does soften the glue stick a bit and I've had to apply a bit more gluestick on the reposition.
The only domestic tissue I've been able to apply wet is Easy Built or Hallmark!
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 6:32pm
Gunny, nice looking bones [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 6:45pm
I cover dry, soak flying surfaces panel by panel with a wet Kleenex and pin down on spacers to dry.

Fuselage is just stood on end to dry, of course.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 12:58pm
Got some work done on the landing gear today..bending basswood this morning while I was grumbling about the 8" of snow we got last night. Is it April or December? Thxs Big. Would prolly have to see your Kleenex in action Apple..lol

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 5th, 2016 at 8:15am
Going slow atm..somehow I caught some stomach bug and the flu. I went from feeling fine to sick within 1 hour yesterday morning.  Did get my landing equipment finished..not much else though.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Apr 5th, 2016 at 9:36am
Gunny, is the rib spacing asymmetrical on the center section of the wing? Hope you catch the feel betters soon.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 5th, 2016 at 2:04pm
Col. left side of the center section has one extra rib on purpose. It was originally intended to be on the right side, but the   mix-up in the plan (used loosely) forced me to move it to the left hand side. Basically the original extra rib was to help with turning, but that has been done away with when I had to move its location.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by applehoney on Apr 5th, 2016 at 7:14pm
>. Basically the original extra rib was to help with turning,

Hmmm ... Another 'modification' from the original... and curiously I've never heard it mentioned before; a more recent amendment perhaps?  Quite unnecessary; the thought was perhaps to hold up the right wing in the power turn, something done just as well with a touch of washin on the inner panel instead.

However moving it to the left wing ... i.e. the left wing is longer/more area than the other  ... may be a concern as that wing is now influencing a right turn which, under full power, might well induce a downward spiral.    If only flying for sport under moderate power this may not be so evident but I really would add 3/32" washin at the tip joint to attempt to compensate.

If maybe an extra inch (?) on that span you're only probably picking up  maybe 5 sq ins of added wing area - depending on chord - which may not make a lot of diference but .. I'd rather be 'safe than  sorry'    :)


Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Colonel Manfred von Holstein on Apr 5th, 2016 at 8:08pm
To clarify, is the left half of the wing longer or does it just have an extra rib?

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 6th, 2016 at 8:33am
Okay I will try to clarify here..sorry. I never did a Easy Built kit before and this started out as a kit for my nephew at the beginning but he lost interest quick. Their other plans might be great..idk and sorry to say but this one SUCKS!!
The center wing panel can be built on the plan, the right wing tip section can be built on the plan. But the left can't be built on the plan without cutting it up. ( when I say center can be built I mean becuz there is alot of room leftover on the paper, so it visually appears its a whole section)
The wing tips are the same length,but the left one on the paper is 1" longer than the right,due to this 1" being part of the CENTER section.
Here is where the printing smudge on the plan came into play. (The 1" on the left tip could be added to the center section on the plan with no problem instead of having it on the wing tip) Dave says his master copy on the PC doesnt show the big smudge mark..idk. So the big smear led me to believe it was a printing error and it overprinted the extra 1" on the plan. I guess I assumed to much..the smear, extra room on center panel etc.
I added the extra rib to not have to add wash in..but because I had to add 1" of length to the left side,I moved my rib to act as reinforcement to the spliced in area.(which came out nice if I do say so).
So I tried to not make this a Easy Built bashing thread and think I accomplished it. Anne was great on the phone with our replacement stuff due to UPS smashing it. Dave was great on the phone and my 1/32 sheeting was superb.
But this plan deviates to much from the original for my liking. For the cost, original plans should be included also. Or change the name to NEW AGE Wakefield..lol
So I am approaching the finish line..stabs were covered last night, landing gear bent, gunna try some fuse covering today.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Apr 8th, 2016 at 12:12am
OK. Better late than never. I have started doing a bit on a Comet P6E that I had mentioned earlier in this thread. Just the fuselage formers and bottom keel cut out. Most of the rest of the fuselage is 1/16" square.
ian
formers1.jpg (43 KB | )
formers2a.jpg (55 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 8th, 2016 at 5:24pm
Good start PB!!
So I have my tail bits all covered and doped. Just finished shrinking the wing..let me tell you thats ALOT of wing to cover and very awkward. 1 mishap on the wing..I got the entire thing covered without tearing any paper..then BOOM!! Put a finger thru the top of the center section. Originally when I patched it you really had to look to see the patch. After shrinking it is more noticeable. Hopefully doping will help that out. Still havent covered the fuse due to last minute idea with the landing gear wires where they go inside the fuse sides. Also was still debating on my colors for the fuse.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Apr 9th, 2016 at 1:56am
Back to hammering in pins with my brass hammer. Plan covered with wax paper. Using Ambroid cement. Keel, former and stringer construction. A bit of info missing on the plan, like landing gear and wing attachments and box for exhaust stacks ... Just have to fill in as I go along. I have wanted to build one for a while.
ian
Side1A.jpg (62 KB | )
Side1B.jpg (53 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 9th, 2016 at 8:21am
Ian, I need one of those hammers to place next to my computer so it will behave. ;)

Cant wait to see this airplane to come together. What scheme are you going for?

Bob

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 9th, 2016 at 12:53pm
OK... I've gotta do a model "original" style.  Found this one designed by Herbert Weiss between 1938 and 1947.  Being that I don't know the exact date of the design, I'm saying that it's in the "45" area and qualifies.  Been wanting to do this one for a while.  It's the Douglas Mixmaster XB-42. Hope this meets with approval?

Sky9pilot
Douglas-XB-42-Mixmaster-10.jpg (23 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 9th, 2016 at 12:54pm
Do you have a secret stash of Ambroid PB??..lol

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 9th, 2016 at 1:09pm
Nope...but I do have several bottles of white glue!!!! and toothpicks! :D ;).  I will now remember how long it took to build, waiting for the glue to dry!

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Apr 9th, 2016 at 2:37pm
I will like seeing the "Mixmaster" come together. Especially with the pusher prop. Any chance of counter-rotating props?
Our hobby shop still sells Ambroid for $7/tube.  I haven't finally decided on the paint scheme. If I go with the 3 originals, I prefer the blue fuselage and yellow wings. However, I might go for a fantasy RCAF scheme. I am going to build in attachment points for the lower wing and the cabane struts, since they aren't shown. I am also going to put in supports to move the rear motor mount peg forward to the last former. And, of course, some wire for the landing gear.
ian
fuselage1_002.jpg (66 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 9th, 2016 at 10:09pm
I was possibly thinking of using Duco... it's only around  $4 a tube.  But I thin it 50/50 with acetone. 

No contra prop on this one...would like to give a larger model a try with contra-rotating props.  Maybe an enlarged Mixmaster or a Skyshark, or something else.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by staubkorb on Apr 10th, 2016 at 5:33am
Yikes!  $7.00 a tube (what size?) really shows how the dollar has depreciated.  My quart can of Ambroid, bought around 1972, only set me back $3.40.

Still have about half a pint (never liked the coloration and don't use it on S&T models).

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 10th, 2016 at 9:19am
Its gotta be the newer stuff they made unless the Hobby Shop had a huge pile of it from the 70's/80's formula. They say that Bohning Platinum fletching cement is almost the same stuff. I used some really old Ambroid and I can say for certain it was WAY better than a tube of newer Ambroid I had. BTW..I have lost 4 glue sticks and cant find em anywhere, had to resort to UHU until I can hit up the craft store. Think Gremlins have moved into my bench area.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 10th, 2016 at 3:36pm
Wakefield Update--- The end of this build is in sight now. Wing and tail surface has been sealed this morning with a matte clear. Whole fuse has been covered...waiting on glue stick to dry up before I shrink it and dope now. I had no intentions of painting ( and with my tissue scheme it really didnt need it) BUT..since the Eze Dope messed up on the green Esaki pieces..I will now be painting it. Gunna snap a photo of what the Eze does on the green if its bubbly. Royally ticked me off because that tissue was tight and snappy. I almost did banana oil but its still to cold out here and even doing it in my paint booth it would have still been fumey.

---Fuse tissue shrunk with no problems, had to prime the stock prop after I fixed it and removed some awful mold lines on it. I can see no way to tissue the nose and have it not look like junk. I may skin coat the  whole nose in putty or try to seal it and blow some sanding sealer and paint it.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 11th, 2016 at 7:10pm
Prop took me forever to mask today. So many little strips of tape for masking..think I spent longer on the prop masking it than it took covering the whole fuse. Finish up painting on the fuse tomorrow and that should be about it.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 13th, 2016 at 8:00am
Still have 1 color left to shoot on the fuse. Airbrush is giving me a hard time of it due to having to shoot my paint quite dry due to using Esaki and domestic white mixed. Also one of my colors was going bad and of course plugged up my brush...Nose block came out okay for covering it wet..but I couldnt cover it in 1 shot..it took 3 different pieces.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 13th, 2016 at 10:47am
A few bits and pieces I can post now. All painted up now. Just odds and ends to do.
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20160413_114418-1024x576.jpg (161 KB | )
20160413_114509-1024x576.jpg (165 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 13th, 2016 at 10:58am
Gunny...looking good. That prop is something!  I now understand what you were saying about it!!!!  I like the skis [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 13th, 2016 at 1:08pm
Thxs Sky..I windex soaked the tips of the basswood, then dunked the tips in hot water for about 3 minutes and bent them on the youngest boys "natural teething pill bottle"..lol it was the only thing I could find that was correct size. The masking on that prop was awful..I am waiting on a resupply of Tamiya tape so I had to cut up blue painters tape into little slivers 1/8" strips. I dont even know if that prop block was possible to 1 sheet cover wet without a ton of wrinkles..I know it was beyond my ability.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 13th, 2016 at 7:40pm
Gunny...
On plastic props I will take electrical tape and lay it out on a glass pane and then with straight egde cut the thin strips I need for masking.  Having once been stuck on the glass it doesn't remain too sticky and paint doesn't wick under the edge.  It's still too sticky for doped tissue in my experience unless you restick it a time or two to take some of the tackiness off.  But for plastic it works well and for narrow strips makes easy curves etc for panels. When doing curves don't stretch it too much or it will pull off and mess things up.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 14th, 2016 at 12:55pm
The green frog tape is the only stuff I can find to put on doped tissue and not have it rip off. Its probably the best tape for masking I have run across for the price. Even at Wal Mart its like 6.00 a roll..not for the faint of heart. I have been having to hand paint my deco's. Printer saturated the tissue to much, even on a low setting.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 16th, 2016 at 10:24am
All done for now. Gotta order a box of rubber still and a prop. But its good enough to post pics. It came in at 5.02 oz as it sits now.
20160416_111554-800x450.jpg (83 KB | )
20160416_111618-800x450.jpg (107 KB | )
20160416_111608-800x450.jpg (98 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 16th, 2016 at 10:31am
It ended up having no power tools used on it. I used a old hand /manual drill for any holes. And apprx. 4 drops of CA. Airbrushed in craft paint,no clear added yet.Also I did use Windex to help with bending the ski tips. Fuse splices had hemp string wrapped on them. Landing wire is hemp also, this gear is only for the ski's not the actual wheels.

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Apr 16th, 2016 at 11:01am
Now that looks pretty all put together. Of course I like the twin rudders. And you could even enter it in the Christmas build with the color scheme and extras!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
ian

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Apr 18th, 2016 at 7:12pm
Regarding the P-6e, I am still contemplating changes necessary to the fuselage to get things to stay together. I put a "platform" to support the stabilizer (first pic). And rather than the flimsy 2-piece stab, I will build a complete stab and glue it to the "platform" I built the basic wings, one pic is of the center section of the upper wing and the 2 lower wings. The last pic is of the mostly completed upper wing. There was no indication of dihedral, so I am considering 5/8" for the lower wings and 1/2 inch for the upper wing. All of this has been done over several days, sneaking in the odd half hour in between being busy doing lots of other things.
ian
tailsupport1.jpg (34 KB | )
wings1.jpg (66 KB | )
wings2.jpg (34 KB | )

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by NcGunny on Apr 19th, 2016 at 11:18am
Looking good PB! The "busy" always seems to get in the way of building..lol

Title: Re: Pre New age group build idea
Post by pb_guy on Aug 26th, 2016 at 12:13am
I am still working on the P-6e. I put in sockets into the wings to take the cabane and interplane struts. I am still in the process of putting glue supports into the fuselage to receive the cabane struts. I make a jig to hold the upper wing and fuselage out of cardboard. I am making the cabane struts out of bamboo and I intend to make the interplane struts out of hard balsa.
  I know that these things are not in the plans, but they are things that a modeller of that era would probably have done for themselves in order to get a sturdier model.
ian

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