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How to build model airplanes >> Cook ups, Build alongs, participation builds, what have you. >> 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
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Message started by Sky9pilot on Jun 19th, 2018 at 9:03pm

Title: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 19th, 2018 at 9:03pm
Official start time will be September 22, 2018.  Your choice Ace Whitman/Joe Ott plan/kit or a Peanut Scale plan/kit or if you're adventurous you can build one of each category!!!!

Feel free to dream and plan till that time and any pictures you want to share can be shared here.  But remember it's not an official start till we have five (5) committed members to the cookup!!!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 3rd, 2018 at 10:41pm
Mike...that's a twin...right up your alley! ;D :D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 17th, 2018 at 4:06am
I'm late to the party, but I like the
Ace Whitman Joe Ott Plan Cookup idea.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 17th, 2018 at 6:25pm
From the responses we'll have a fall cookup!  The top two as you can see are a Peanut plan/kit or Joe Ott/Ace Whitman plan/kit.  With one modeler apparently not liking any of the choices... :-? :) ;)

Bargle....none appealed to you...what might appeal to you,  just for the information...maybe next time.

I'm not opposed to having a cookup involving both   as builder's choice, either/or choosing one of the top two winners for the cookup. Should I run another pole on those two?  What's your pleasure?
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by New Builder on Jun 18th, 2018 at 11:04am
The current pole is running a tie and looks like a good combination. Doing both would save you some time and would produce some more great airplanes. Your choice.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by MKelly on Jun 18th, 2018 at 1:31pm
I'd be up for a dual Joe Ott/peanut cook up.  Depending on how glacial my build pace gets I might be able to squeak in one of each!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Kerak on Jun 19th, 2018 at 11:19am
Would a Joe Ott design reduced to peanut size qualify for the cook up?  :D

I assume that Ace Whitman will qualify as a Joe Ott design...since they're one-in-the-same.  ?

Hey...I can butcher any plan...I'm game for whatever.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 19th, 2018 at 12:37pm
If, I have read correctly this would be a Joe Ott and a Peanut cookup.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:03pm
I'm chomping at the bit on this one.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:57pm
Remember it takes 5 participants to start a cookup.  Apparently it's looking like "either/or both" cookup of an Ace Whitman/Joe Ott or Peanut scale cookup...  Kerak...I guess an Ace Whitman/Joe Ott plan shrunk to 13" wingspan would qualify for Peanut... according to FAC Peanut Rules = Peanut Scale is maximum 13" span, from the latest rules book.  I've looked for other options and haven't found anything else.  I understand it can have a smaller span with no fuselage over 9.? length.  Still checking this.

Google states:
Seasons of 2018:
SPRING EQUINOX      March 20, 12:15 P.M. EDT
SUMMER SOLSTICE      June 21, 6:07 A.M. EDT
FALL EQUINOX      September 22, 9:54 P.M. EDT
WINTER SOLSTICE      December 21, 5:23 P.M. EST

So the official Fall Cookup for S&T starts September 22, 2018; I don't think we have to wait till 9:54 P.M. EDT... It will be Ace Whitman/Joe Ott and/or Peanut Scale models your choice plan or kit!!!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 20th, 2018 at 12:24am
OK! Im in with both a Joe Ott and Ace Whitman plan.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by MKelly on Jun 20th, 2018 at 9:31am
I'm in with the 22" Joe Ott Spitfire - straight from the box!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by New Builder on Jun 20th, 2018 at 12:52pm
I'm in with either a Joe Ott or an Ace Whitman plan, maybe one of each. Not sure which but will be ready when the time comes, got a lot of clean up on outstanding models to get done in the mean time.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Kerak on Jun 20th, 2018 at 2:36pm
Joe Ott and Ace Whitman are one in the same...brief autobiography of JOtt attached.

Neal
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=OttJoe_001.pdf (153 KB | 109 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:43pm
I'll take two- they're small. Ace Whitman 22" HE-113 (yeah, the ruse fooled Joe Ott, too), and what the heck- an 11.3" Caudron 460 from a Cleveland plan.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scale Cookup
Post by Ray_K on Jun 20th, 2018 at 5:50pm
6-20-2018

I might be in on this one, maybe the Whitman Bonanza.  ;)

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 20th, 2018 at 5:55pm
6-20-2018

Sept 22 start date, ok I'm in with the Ace Whitman Bonanza. I need to build an airplane for a change.

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 20th, 2018 at 6:15pm
Ray, I was just looking at that plan. It brought back memories of Saturday morning and Sky King.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 20th, 2018 at 7:36pm
I'm in and still deciding on the Whitman/Ott plan but leaning towards the Catalina or the B-25.  A possible Peanut would be the Grumman Guardian by  Robert Sweitzer.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:45pm
6-20-2018

Hey Bob, me too, that's why I'm going to build it.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:47pm
6-20-2018

I might even sneak in a 2nd airplane, if I do 2 the 2nd one will be Ott's B-29.  ;)

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 20th, 2018 at 11:47pm
I have decided on Ace Whitman's Vought_SB2U-1_Vindicator and Joe Ott's Martin_Maryland_Ott_38in.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 21st, 2018 at 11:50am
Bob Joe Ott published and made his kits under the Ace Whitman name for the Whitman Manufacturing Co. so they are the same guy!!! As Neal's article explains.  But you're welcome to do two Whitman/Ott plans if you want to.  I was really looking at the Maryland plan as well.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 21st, 2018 at 12:07pm
Ott separated himself from Whitman Publishing and started producing kits under his own name about 1938. Ace Whitman soldiered on without him for a while. A lot of the Ace Whitman plans after that were drawn by someone else, but the Ott DNA is still there.

You can pretty much figure any wartime Ace Whitman kit or plan is post-Ott. A good rule of thumb on a "warbird" is it it has "Ott-O-Matic" formers, it's Joe Ott- if it's all wood, it ain't.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 21st, 2018 at 12:18pm
"Joe Ott produced SKYFLYER kits in the mid-1930s with a company name of Model Aircraft Products in Chicago. An example of this series is the "Wedell Williams" solid model kit with a wingspan of 6-inches. This solid kit features printed balsa blocks with a nice plan of the Wedell Williams #92, NR536V, although it is not identified as such on the plan. The plan states, "ALL SKY FLYER PLANS COPYWRIGHT  by J.S. OTT MODEL DESIGNER AND AUTHOR". The bottom area of the black & white plan features some perspective views showing how to carve the model.

Ott started the Ace Whitman kit firm in 1935 in Racine, Wisconsin in the unused woodworking factory of Western Coil & Electric and used the services of Western Printing to do the kit marketing under the name of Whitman Publishing, a book publisher. The Ace Whitman kits were sold in huge numbers through dime stores and were not advertised - Ott's design efforts helped created magnificent blueprint style plans with a reverse side featuring a blackline, framework perspective drawing and instructions. Ott left the company in 1938 and started manufacturing his own line of Joe Ott kits which were marketed by J.L. Wright Inc. of Chicago. Known as a "Joe Ott Kit" with "Blue print picture plan", these kits were very nice flying scale models with three-foot plus wingspans; all balsa with plans similar to the Ace Whitman kits. These are the very best of all Joe Ott kits and were copyrighted in 1939 and 1940 - for example, the Curtiss XP-40 (with aft radiator), the Curtiss Fighter, had a 36-inch wingspan (Kit No. 3606) and a conventional model construction. His Lysander had a 42-inch span and would make a very respectable model by today's standards. But as WWII loomed on the horizon, Ott must have had a premonition about balsa shortages.

In September, 1941, Model Airplane News ran an ad for the Joe Ott Manufacturing Co. based in Chicago; the ad stated that "Joe Ott America's Ace Model Airplane Designer announces a new and revolutionary Ott-O-Former Building Method" and that a full color page would run the following month.

The new Ott-O-Former kit line started by featuring 22-inch, 32-inch and 36-inch kits. Note that he also still offered some of the standard, all-balsa kits. The Ott-O-Former kits became the best sellers with their die-cut bristolboard formers and balsa strips. The balsa would soon be substituted with hardwood as the wartime restrictions on balsa began. The large, gas powered Turner Racer was still being offered in mid-1942 although.

Joe Ott was still advertising in 1945, but with this message: "I want you to know why we use OTT-O-FORMERS in our Kits. These Formers were first designed by me during the early days of the War, when Balsa was unobtainable for assembling with thin wood stringers. Now that Balsa is available, we have found that the OTT-O-FORMERS are still the best construction with Balsa stringers. The Balsa Former, being a round, thin piece with definite grain, is not as strong as the same weight of Bristol (no grain). Adequate Balsa Formers require 2 or 4 pieces. That's why we are continuing to develop 1945 OTT-O-FORMERS for better and easier-to-build kits each year."

The Joe Ott kits disappeared following WWII as economic doldrums felled many kit manufacturers in the late 1940s. Joe Ott was an instructor of Aeronautics at Texas A&M University. "

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 21st, 2018 at 1:20pm
Thanks Craig for the additional clarification...
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 21st, 2018 at 2:58pm
If you're looking for Ace Whitman/Joe Ott plans they can be found on HipPocketAeronautics site "HPA" Click Here
Or this Google search Click Here
Or Outerzone Click for Ace Whitman plans
Joe Ott Plans Click Here
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 21st, 2018 at 3:03pm
I learned all this after I started on the Defiant. I'm still trying to find out who drew that plan. The plan was based on the prototype, K8310, which was built in '37, but the plan I have was copyrighted in '41. I have a later-in-the-war Ace Whitman HE-113 kit which has very similar construction to the Defiant, and a Joe Ott Bf-109 Ott-O-Former kit, also mid-war issue. I think the transition was fuzzy at best, and in all reality, Tom, you summed it up- It's all the same!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jun 21st, 2018 at 3:29pm
If someone is interested in the Me109 by Joe Ott, the DC Maxecutors had a copy in one issue: http://balsachips.net/static/contents/maxfax-2014-02.pdf, but when I checked the plan, it was not scaled correctly, so you have to be careful if you want to build from it.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jun 21st, 2018 at 3:52pm
I suppose I'm in for a peanut build or two or three, unless of course, a "higher calling" comes along...that means I can build whatever I want...just restricts the size.  Sobeit.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 21st, 2018 at 5:30pm
Ian's link will work but you need to download the Newsletter as a PDF and then just print pages 10-11 & 12 individually using poster print actual size.  Prints out as two 8.5X11" sheets (making 11X17) to be joined together.  The print out page 12 the same way.  Shouldn't be too much distortion.  But it is always safer to measure the plan and check the sizes.

Ray, I've been looking for a B-29 Joe Ott plan but haven't been able to find one do you have one? 
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jun 21st, 2018 at 5:55pm
The only reference that I found to Joe Ott's B-29 is this picture: https://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=6633
and here: http://airplanelife.blogspot.com/2016/10/bild-set-balsa-wood-boeing-b-29.html

And for sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Vintage-1944-B-29-Balsa-Model-Kits-Bild-A-Set-LG/253697367676?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dfe4cb7ba34ad416d8efdf7e5c06611dd%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D392016662549%26itm%3D253697367676&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 21st, 2018 at 8:05pm
6-21-2018

Yes Tom I have the plan and patterns, file is to large, I will e-mail it to you Tom, let me know when you get it.[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 21st, 2018 at 8:14pm
6-21-2018

Tom, I sent you the plans.  ;)

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 21st, 2018 at 8:21pm
6-21-2018

Sorry Tom, I did not know you were looking for the super fortress, I just have the B29 plan with the form-o-matic patterns. 32" wing span, that's what I sent you.

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jun 21st, 2018 at 8:25pm
I'm a newbie here. Where  would I find the plans for this. I would like to join in. :)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 12:01am
Wait for just a while and Tom will likely put it into the plans section of the forum.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 7:17am
Thanks. I should be out of my hand cast by the time this starts. Nice thing is i been able to build laser cut kits at this time. Draw back is i can't  cover them  :P

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 1:36pm
Ray,
Thanks for the great Joe Ott plan but it's the B-17 Flying Fortress not the B-29 Super Fortress.  I'll post it for those who are interested because the formers are all complete and this is a very nice copy of the plan.  Thanks again!
Tom
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Boeing_Flying_Fortress_-_Joe_Ott_001.pdf (1053 KB | 53 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 3:40pm
6-22-2018

Opps, you are right Tom, I will be building Joe Ott's B-17 not the B-29, I would like to get my hands on the B-29 plan as well.

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:22pm
Hey...this cookup involves using Joe Ott-specified materials for Joe Ott/Ace Whitman plans, right?  Wouldn't be Joe Ott without crackerbox cardboard now, would it.  :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:28pm
Not having seen a real Joe Ott kit I'm not familiar with the former material.  So cracker box or cereal box cardboard is similar?  I know my card stock wouldn't be stiff enough for formers. 

I hadn't set any limits so I'm eager to hear the desires of all who will be participating???
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:41pm
6-22-2018

Good question, I know that the form-o-matic formers used in the Joe Ott kits were of a pressed fiber type cardboard being 1/16" thick from what I have heard and read about, do we have to use pressed board for this or can we use balsa, can we change the wing span or do we have to leave it at the original wing span?

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:45pm
6-22-2018

The form-o-matic formers were made out of die-cut Bristolboard? What is Bristolboard?

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:52pm
My humble opinion (and the way I plan on building if I decide not to use a kit) is that there'd be no problem with substituting materials. The Ott-O-Formers, being made of Bristol board, were one piece and immune to cross-grain breakage. I have a couple kits, and a couple orphaned plans. My plan is to cross-laminate some suitable 1/32" sheet wood and cut the formers to match the Ott plan.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:55pm
Bristol board is an uncoated, machine-finished paper board. It is said to be named after the city where it was originally produced, in England.

Bristol board comes in two key finishes: vellum or smooth (or sometimes “plate”). Less common in the fine art world is an engraver’s finish, which is more suited for printing engraved stationery.

Within those two key finishes, you’ll find several thicknesses of bristol board. It can range from one ply (along the lines of the thickness of printer paper), or two or three ply. Two ply is more like a card stock, firm but foldable, and three ply is more like a rigid board. Sometimes, rather than being sold as two or three ply, the board will be sold by weight. A paper’s “weight” refers to the weight of 500 sheets of a paper in question. The 100-pound bristol board is a popular and versatile version.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:56pm
6-22-2018

After a little research, Bristolboard is also known as paperboard, it is an uncoated and laminated machine finished paper, I would imagine if you laminated cardboard to 1/16" thick with a glue stick it would be similar to the original but I think it would be to heavy for our purposes.

Cheers, Ray.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 4:58pm
Always something to learn everyday!!! Thanks for the info... I think I'll use the 1/32" cross grain for the formers as well.  After seeing Rays's B-17 plan that's beginning to look real good.  Glad I've got to September to finalize a choice!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 5:08pm
See reply#26 for links to free Whitman/Ott plans

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 5:26pm
Here is the Bristol Board and Balsa from my Joe Ott 22” Messerschmitt kit. The three-ply board for the tail outlines and landing gear mics .042”. The fuselage formers look to be single-ply and measure .015” thick. The balsa printwood wing ribs are dead on .050” thick.
07BD264C-59CF-4A20-A036-EAED9EF52C38.jpeg (152 KB | 43 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 8:34pm
On occasion, I have had some items that I purchased packed with some corrugated cardboard that is about 1/16" thick. I keep a couple of pieces in case it comes in handy. I have used it to make a wing jig. It would probably be a great substitute for the old thick bristol board.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 9:37pm
if i'm correct. we can chose a model to build from the plan list.
I was thinking about doing the Fokker D8. Always been a favorite one of mine. I build a sterling version about 15 years ago and it flew ok. Like to try agine and see if my building skills have inproved.... ::)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 10:33pm
Shipwreck...yep any Ace Whitman/Joe Ott plan or if you're into something smaller a Peanut Scale of your choice from our plans Click Here S&T Peanut Plans, HPA's Builder's Plan Gallery, or Outerzone's Plans "Peanut Scale is any plan that is a 13" span or smaller plan".  Whitman/Ott usually have a much larger span. 
I placed a list of the Whitman/Ott plans available on Outerzone for free under the Cookup board title to make the list more available than looking through all these posts. Click Here for list
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 9:11am
Cool!  I will build the DVlll Ott.  I was going to go thru my plan collection  but it will be quiker for me just to down load it ::)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 2:04pm
Still trying to decide on the Ott plan but I've found a peanut scale SR-71 (gotta have a jet) pusher to build for my Peanut choice.   :D ;D ;)

found this re: Peanut Scale models=
Back To The Sticks
(the fun is still there)
By Bill Hannan
Peanut Scale History
Before World War Two, models in thee United States were marketed in “lines” arranged according to wing spans, rather than specific scale reductions. Thus, a given span model was usually in a given price range . Common groupings were 36 in., 24 in., 16. in. and 12 in. This smallest grouping was probably the most popular, since it was the least expensive, and the majority of the customers were youngsters of quite limited means.

Believe it or not, these ‘”one-footers” could be obtained in kit form for as little as ten cents (Megow’s were 9d. (3 3/4p) in Britain), and this included the following:

Full-size printed plan
Balsa stripwood
Printed sheet balsa
Machine cut balsa prop
Propeller hook
Brass thrust washers
Rubber
Hardwood wheels
Hardwood thrust button
Coloured tissue
Tiny tube of glue
Nose block
Celluloid for windshield
Today, ten cents will just about cover the cost of two strips of 1/16 in. square stripwood!

When Dave Stott and Bob Thompson of the Bridgeport, Connecticut,  Flying Aces Club were composing the rules for their new Peanut Scale event, back in 1967, they began by examining sets of plans from these pre-war kit models. At first, their rules specified a 12-in. span, with a plus and minus tolerance, to allow for inevitable variations in man-made products. Then, after the event had been tested, it was discovered that a number of the plans were available in old magazine that were almost 13 in. span. Thus, the limit was raised to 13 in., with the firm provision that no additional stretching would be tolerated.

Originally, the rules called out a lower limit also, but this segment was eventually dropped, as few contestants cared to build anything smaller than necessary. Thus the upper limit was frozen, where it remains today, and has gained world-wide acceptance.
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=SR-71.pdf (130 KB | 64 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 4:12pm
I followed the build of that SR-71 peanut on HPA. The model perished in flying from what I recall. Does anyone have the original plan? It seems to have been copied from some newsletter of some kind and little bits are cut off. I am considering Dick Howard's peanut F7F, or perhaps Joe Ott's Ercoupe.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 6:05pm
I followed it too Ian and he does mention that he didn't quite have it balanced at the CG that I supplied him with.  I hope to have a bit more success, as we all do when we build models, forever optimist we Free Flight Modelers are!!!!  Gabby said he saw it fly very well, of course David Aronstein is one of the masters in Free Flight (Always Capitalized) modeling.  I'm still hoping and very optimistic...if not it'll look great!

I've also decided against the B-25 and decided to go with Ace Whitman Mitsubishi "Jack" J2M2 been wanting to build one of these for a long time.
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Jack_II_Mitsubishi_Raiden_15_oz4251.pdf (275 KB | 86 )
65_17.jpg (55 KB | 37 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:36pm
I had a visit from (2) S&T members today after their competition. I had a great visit and learned a few things and got the building bug again. I will blame them for the clean up, movement of wood to the work bench, and the rummaging through my pile of plans.

All in all a great day.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Jun 24th, 2018 at 10:53pm
Bob thanks for having us over - it was great to meet you in person and see some of your models including the Mustang from last winter's cookup.  Look forward to your next builds and getting a chance to fly together!

Thanks again,

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jun 27th, 2018 at 1:20pm
I believe that I would like to commit to a building effort of a Joe Ott Airabonita, with a possible conversion to a Bell P-39 Airacobra.  More significantly, I truly intend to attempt employment of "crackerbox materials" in construction of fuselage formers and various wingtips, etc.  Maybe it will be successful...and maybe not...don't know, but every time I've ever gazed upon the beautiful blank cardboard of a cereal box...or crackerbox...I've wondered what use could be made of it.  Here's my opportunity to find out.  I suspect the weight of materials will add up in a hurry...sobeit.  Looks like fun to me.

And, in the spirit of General Horatio Gates...being lame (down boys)...I'll be getting a head start (Battle of Camden, 1780).  ;D ;D ;D ;D  Just kidding.... ;)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 9:21pm
Since we do not start until September i will start a Veron Coupe after my Elmedorf Special is finished.

I finished a list of a/c that interest me  for the cookup, but I cannot make up my mind.

Fairey Fulmar
Brewster F2A-1
North American O-47a
Albatross 36in
Caudron C-460  27in
Skymaster  24in
Bellana Cruisemaster
Hawker Hurricane
Boeing B-17
Martin Maryland
Fairey  Battle

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jul 7th, 2018 at 7:28pm
OK, fellers- maybe this needs to be in the Mystery Plane thread, but it looks more Curtiss than North American to me. It's been hanging around on eBay for a while. Any thoughts?
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:20pm
Looks good...it was NAA's attempt to make a fighter in the 30s.  I think the USAAC confiscated the batch intended for Peru and turned them into fighter trainer aircraft designated P-64 (derived from the NA-50 & NA-68)... 
This is the spiffy-ist one I've seen, found in the EAA Museum ... Click Here
Tom
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Jul 8th, 2018 at 9:50am
Thanks! That's an obscure one I wasn't aware of. Should be an interesting potential build!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jul 14th, 2018 at 2:59pm
Just got my plans printed out today. Know I am having a hard time deciding witch one to build.
Paul
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:20pm
Build both!  That way you only have to decide which one to build first.  Both look like very interesting models.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:30pm
I agree with Mike, build both it will be fun.

Ive decided on the Martin Maryland and the P-51.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:40pm
Yep...go for both!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Aug 19th, 2018 at 9:51am
OK- I've been ruminating on this, and my intentions are;

1.) My Peanut build will be a Grumman TBM-3 from the Alan Callaghan plan.

2.) Ace Whitman "North American Fighter"- 16" P-64 balsa/tissue model

3.) If time allows, I might do a 32" Joe Ott "Ott-O-Former" Lockheed P-38 straight out of the box.

Or not...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Aug 19th, 2018 at 3:47pm
Great choices Craig.  I love that peanut TBM plan - believe I have the Model Builder issue it was published in, let me know if you'd like me to scan and send you the article.


Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Aug 19th, 2018 at 3:56pm
Thanks, Mike- I have the article, too. It's a neat plan- calls for 1/32" square basswood stringers and spars, and the propeller design looks interesting too. It looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and learn to vac-form canopies, though.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 19th, 2018 at 5:59pm
Looks good to me...love the Avenger, guess I'll have to add another to the "To Do" list.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Aug 19th, 2018 at 6:08pm
I have not seen the Avenger, I need to find those plans for my file.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 8:09am
I'm in and have not decided between the Cessna Airmaster or the Luscombe Phantom, maybe both depending on my time. Are we allowed to laminate outlines or stay true to the plans?
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 9:51am
It's up to the builder and what requirements if possible contest participation requires.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 11:44am
I am torn between the Focke Wulf 198, the Lysander, the Ercoupe, the Bonanza and the Douglas O-43A. I keep moving from one to the other as a favorite.
ian

WOW! Ian, and I thought I had it bad.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 12:07pm
Start with the one that scratches the worst itch and work down from there!!! ;D :D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Aug 24th, 2018 at 10:14am
Ill give it a go for both. Hope all of ya are doing well.
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Aug 24th, 2018 at 9:15pm
8-24-2018

I know I am going to have a full plate in September, 2 or three builds at once, instead of the Whitman Bonanza I will go with the Joe Ott B-17, I had a brainstorm, brain blast, whatever you want to call it but I came up with an interesting way to power all 4 engines by rubber power, I will not say how I am going to do yet, lets see if anyone can guess before you see it.  ;)

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Aug 25th, 2018 at 11:44am
A flying rubber-powered B-17, likely with your gear-boxes set up to a rubber motor buried in the fuselage. Good thought.
I have printed the plans for the bonanza. I have wanted one of those longer than the others.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Aug 27th, 2018 at 4:52pm
8-27-2018

Good guess but no, no gearboxes in this one.

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:29am
Has this started yet? I am a little behind the eight ball here just checking.
Paul AKA shipwreck

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:44pm
Although the kids are back in school now, I believe that we are going by the Fall Equinox which happens September 22, 9:54 P.M. EDT
  Now, I am not sure if we have to wait until about 10pm before we start, or if you are allowed to cut out a kit for yourself ahead of time as long as you don't glue anything together. Or even if  you can make some subassemblies, like cockpits or canopies.
:D ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 6th, 2018 at 1:51pm
Sept 22 is start time!  We won't have to wait till 10 p.m. to start...just 22 Sept 2018.  Enjoy, if you cut out before that time and don't tell anyone who will know.  You'll just finish before everyone else and we'll suspect something is amiss! :o ;D :D ;)  We just like building together!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Sep 6th, 2018 at 3:06pm
Thanks guys,
sorry iv been out of the loop. Hope to be a little more tentative.
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 6th, 2018 at 6:44pm
This is a bit amusing, gentlemen...like a gaggle of kids waiting for the school bell to ring....

I think the point of a cookup is to have the pleasure of seeing what everyone is doing while constructing similar models...not who finishes first...or last.  There's no prize money...no kid's participation trophy...only a symbolic gold star on one's forehead...or whatever.

Like Tom says...who will know exactly when you start...and who cares?  Actually...from my meager experience...most participants end up having multiple builds!  Tom says, "ENJOY!"  So enjoy!  I'm anticipating a wonderful variety of Joe Ott-Ace Whitman models!  And peanuts...enough to cause a circus stampede!  ;)

The models created during the cookup are going to be classics!  SO ENJOY!

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 6th, 2018 at 9:02pm
AND I was all ready to begin. :P

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:16pm
I can't believe August is gone and we're already up to the 6th of Sept.  This month will be gone before we know it!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Sep 7th, 2018 at 4:08pm
9-6-2018

Yes August went by too fast, my move is complete just need to finish unpacking and organize my stuff and I will be back in action.

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 7th, 2018 at 11:15pm
OK!  I'm all ready...got no less than 6...6...designs ready to go!  :D  Gonna start with the Whitman version of a Mitsubishi Karigane (which is really a Ki-30 Nagoya)...then, in the peanut scale category, a Mooney Ki-27, a Val, a Tojo, a Hawker Fury, and finally...maybe...the venerable Republic P-47D.  Can I do it?  :o  Mission creep?  ::)  Leme atem'  ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 8th, 2018 at 1:05am
We Free Flight Modelers are nothing if not optimist!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 8th, 2018 at 7:01am
What, Neal? There's no prize money? We're doing this for fun?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 9th, 2018 at 7:29am
I would add hope to the optimistic idea. I'm sticking with the Luscombe Phantom and the Cessna Airmaster. Since I'm on the East coast I see the equinox before everybody else so I get a head start.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 9th, 2018 at 9:34am
Amherst is still way inland. By the way, are you old enough to appreciate the truly Canadian joke? The world will end at 6:00 tonight - a half-hour later in Newfoundland. (Any Newfies here?)
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 9th, 2018 at 11:30am
Or...one might come to Utah...live in stasis, virtual suspended animation.  In fact...it's said that one could "exist" forever here, where September 22 is forever away...may never arrive!  :-?  It's said that while the rest of the world rotates, we just wait for out spot to come around again.  ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 9th, 2018 at 1:04pm
pb-guy, right you are about being inland, was meaning to say that I am still in the Eastern time zone and get an hour jump on the cookup.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 9th, 2018 at 8:06pm
Right you are Mike. I am 3 hours behind you. But I have been known to get up at 4AM when I can't sleep  ::)
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Aerophile on Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:22am
So guys, let my ole mind be greared straight.  This kit would qualify for this build.  Bought off eBay cheap, well to me anyway.  Kit is complete except for prop wire. 
32" Joe Ott Vought Sikorsky, Ott-O-Formers.  Will have parts and plans copied.  Bristolboard  f/Formers!
Can I play😎
Rick
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:25am
Rick, that is a keeper. Glad to have you with us. When you scan your plans, would you share them in pdf?

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Aerophile on Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:43am

bigrip74 wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:25am:
Rick, that is a keeper. Glad to have you with us. When you scan your plans, would you share them in pdf?

Bob
  👍

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:38am
Great to have another build in the cookup. Can't have too many.
I believe that you can get the plan also from Outerzone? https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4535 listed as Vought Sikorsky.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 15th, 2018 at 12:28pm
Welcome to the cookup Aerophile...I look forward to seeing this Corsair coming together.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Aerophile on Sep 15th, 2018 at 1:11pm

pb_guy wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 11:38am:
Great to have another build in the cookup. Can't have too many.
I believe that you can get the plan also from Outerzone? https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4535 listed as Vought Sikorsky.
ian

Thanks so very much.  I searched for and did not find!
The kit instructions have the panta of something printed in 1941.  And they have been nawed on too boot!😳
Rick

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Aerophile on Sep 15th, 2018 at 1:15pm
Thanks guys for the welcome 👍
Have spent the day studying what I have, will need and figuring out the wing🤔.  But after close 👀 of the plans.
Got it figured out......maybe!
Rick

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 15th, 2018 at 1:18pm
Rick,
When you see the highlighted in red print usually means you can click on the highlighted print and it will take you to the linked site to the thing being pointed out.  You may already know this so please excuse my explanation. 

I'm not sure just what you're asking re: your plan. 
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 15th, 2018 at 2:53pm
I know what you mean about the wing being a bit hard. The angle between the inner and outer wing panels is set by the 'wing braces'. But relying just on those pieces will not give an exact angle. You should probably make the inner and outer wing panels in one piece, then raise the outer panel until the wing braces appear to make the right angle. Then make a template to hold the outer wing panel at the correct angle while the glue sets. Use the same template for the other wing. You should add gussets on each side of the rib at the dihedral break (front and rear) before removing the support that gives you your dihedral angle!
When it comes to attaching the wing to the fuselage, it looks like you cover (and shrink and paint) the wing before gluing the wing spars to the fuselage formers. Make sure that the wing tips are at the bottom of the canopy, and disregard the note on the plan about how much dihedral is needed. You will probably have to put in about 1/8" of washout in each wing.
  I apologize in advance if I am teaching my grandma how to suck eggs.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 15th, 2018 at 4:28pm
Is it September 22 yet?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 15th, 2018 at 5:25pm
OK kids we're almost there!!!! Just over the next hill!!!! The wagon train will be there in about a week!!! :D ;D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:10pm
I'm almost ready [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 19th, 2018 at 10:25am
Well fellas...as the old saying goes...after today it's two and a wakeup...hope you've got your feet in the blocks!

And in the interest of "prep," a little research: The Whitman Mitsubishi Karigane (Wild Goose, Allied Code named BABS) plan is the object of my interest.  Published during WWII (1942) it is a reasonable representation of an actual Japanese aircraft…with the exception that it definitely is NOT a Karigane BABS…but in fact, a Mitsubishi Ki-30 Nagoya (Army Type 97 Light Bomber, Allied Code name ANN.  In fairness to the Joe Ott/Ace Whitman folks, the Ki-30 was a further derivative of the “Karigane series,” as was the Ki-51 that follows the Ki-30.  The original Karigane had gained world acclaim with a global tour (Tokyo to London) during the mid 1930’s and so it would be only natural for an American modeling company to assume the series name would carry on.

With only slight technical variations, the design became known to the Allies as ANN and ultimately as SONYA.  Though removed from production by 1942, it “soldiered on” (being an  IJAAF aircraft) throughout the war, primarily in the Asian Theater of Operations.  It was essentially obsolete at the outset of WWII and as Japanese air superiority declined over the next two years, was rapidly withdrawn from front line service.  It’s final operational activity involved being used for suicide air attacks.

The Karigane series type aircraft were the first in Japan to utilize a double bank radial engine as well as a variable pitch/constant speed propeller, the design having been greatly influenced by Mitsubishi’s procurement of General Aviation’s Clark G.A. 43 prototype.  The Ki-30 incorporated an internal bomb bay as well as external weapons load.

I've got my OPORD...ready to GO!  Let's "mount up!" [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 19th, 2018 at 5:18pm
Lots of nice schemes for the Ki-30

I've decided on the Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden allies called "Jack"  can't decide on the scheme yet!!! There's an overall green with with yellow lightening bolts on the fuselage also.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 19th, 2018 at 5:32pm
Thought we'd do a Japanese-themed build, Tom...I like your choice.  That big fuselage shouldn't be a problem for flying...provided you keep it light...only 16" of wing on the plan.  Still...great looking project subject...an "interceptor!"  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

As for my "Karigane," I wish it was...the real aircraft had some nice civil schemes...really attractive.  But...will be happy with the ANN.

I'm really excited about some of these different Ott/Whitman designs that the fellas have claimed for their build projects...gonna be a memorable build...great subjects!  I love the idea of these old-timers coming to life again!  :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 20th, 2018 at 7:49am
I finally narrowed down my choices to the Grumman F6F and the Luscombe Phantom. Was browsing the Smithsonian channel on one of those very early sleepless mornings and saw an hour special on the F6F so made my choice right then. Got them both enlarged at the local staples since they can take my PDF and take it up to around 500%. This is a great savings for me since I don't need to cut them apart and enlarge each separately. Anyway, I'm ready and will start with the F6F.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 20th, 2018 at 1:15pm
I'm gettin' into this cookup...it's coming fast now.  ;)

Here's a photo of what could be Ki-30's...but more likely its successor, the Ki-51.  Most easily spotted difference is the wing position relative to the fuselage.  Ki-15 and Ki-51 located the wing at the bottom of the fuselage...while the Ki-30 raised it up to facilitate an internal bomb bay.

Of greater interest to me are the faces of the various aircrew...hardly appear to be those monsters of war propaganda.  Had an old guy that I worked with (LeRoy D.) tell a story one day...said things in war are not always what the propaganda would have you believe.  He was a gunner on a Navy Liberator bomber...PB-whatever-they-called-it...was flying anti-shipping patrols off the coast of Japan.  The war was almost over...at least everyone felt that way.  They were cruising along...bored out of their skulls...no shipping of any kind, no enemy ac...nothing, when they passed through a bank of clouds.  Emerging on the other side...whoa!  There was a Japanese Betty, flying on the same heading...just a few hundred feet away!  That shook everyone up!  The pilot came on the intercom and yelled for everyone to hold their fire!  So there they were...cruising along, eyeballing each other for what seemed an eternity...which was probably just a couple of minutes...when the Betty lazily banked away...as did the Liberator.  Leroy (guy telling the story) said that at their post-mission briefing...no one said a word about their encounter. "That was the day we all decided to live...no one dies today.  It's not like that in the movies."

Gentlmen...man your planes (stake your claims).  ;)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 20th, 2018 at 8:27pm
Great story...I have a German friend who was a teenager drafted in the German army that had a similar story. 

I can't believe it's only 2 days till the start of the Cookup... I'm not yet ready.  Got to get busy tomorrow.  Been wrapped up in the new site...taking a lot of my time!  But can't wait to start on the Raiden "Jack", have been wanting to do one for quite a while, so I'll be checking one off the "To Do" list!!!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 21st, 2018 at 5:28pm
Tomorrow's the DAY!

Here's a bit more "data" on my build....

I like the photo of the "ordnance specialist" shouldering that bomb...do you think it was already fused? :o  Reminds me of a "joke" from "Nam" many years ago...little guy in pajamas humps a 90mm (chicom 87mm) mortar round all the way down the HoChiMin trail...only to have it fired at an American AB...it's a dud.  The mortar team leader turns to him, "Go get another one, didi."

Tomorrow, tomorrow.....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 21st, 2018 at 6:17pm
I've decided that, since I already have a half-dozen builds going, I'm going to start with the TBM-3 Peanut. So, I'm preparing to assume the Lotus Position and contemplate this plan until precisely 9:44 PM EDT tomorrow. All y'all can cheat and start at daybreak if you must!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Sep 21st, 2018 at 6:24pm
So the "cook up" will be the TBM? Love the plane, saw a nice flying example in a tv show recently. Theres also a YT video showing a rubber powered one, really nicely built [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Saludos a todos!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by griffin on Sep 21st, 2018 at 9:38pm
Love the pic of the dutiful fellow toting the ordinance. Is the pilot on a harakiri flight? Is he going to load the bomb to ensure a bigger bang? Is he going to walk into the spinning propellor arc? The two are probably unrelated and both will die of karoshi.
Griff

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 6:55am
Somebody has to get this rolling- Building the jig for the propeller seems to be a good place. The prop as shown in the plan is laminated over bucks from strips of 1/32" X 1/4" stock- a bunch of them- and then carved to shape. It looks like an interesting way to do it, and keep some symmetry throughout the process. Annnnd... We're off!
IMG_4464.jpg (106 KB | 22 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 7:34am
This part won't take long, did it? The building jig was waxed to keep the parts from sticking. I use one of those scented paraffin warming contraptions- the wax melts but is just cool enough you can dip your fingers in and smear it around. and after a few cycles, the annoying scent goes out of the wax :)
Glued up with PVA, now to start clearing the other stuff off the end of the board to work on the fuse while this dries...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 10:25am
Alright Craig....looking good with that laminated prop. 

We're officially started for the Fall Cookup!!!!

Enjoy!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 11:45am
And NOW that Tom has officially waved the green flag...I will begin my build posts.... :P

Very nice work on the prop, Craig!  That is beautiful work on your prop jig...1/32" balsa lifts? Dia.?

I've already introduced my first mod...a standard fuselage box in lieu of Ace's approach to same.  Call it a need to experience as little "pain" as possible.  ;)  This is going to be a heavy model (so what's new about that?)...plan calls for using lots of 3/32" balsa...hmmmm.

Just a bit of trivia...the "Ki" preface to many of these Japanese WW2 types amounts to the IJAAF's (Imperial Japanese Army Air Force) preference for delineating a piece of equipment as a basic type, i.e., in this case, "aircraft type."  "Ki" is short for the Japanese term, "Kitai," meaning "aircraft type."  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the manufacturer.  How's that for trivia?  8-)

And so...we're off and running...or walking...or crawling...whatever suits the moment...but there appears to be genuine movement.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 12:51pm
Thanks, Neal & Tom- yes, 1/32" lifts. If I don't mess up carving it, it should finish out about 6". Meanwhile, I'm started on the fuselage while the prop blank dries...

1/32" keels & formers, save for F2, F6, and the wing mounting plate which are 1/16". 1/32" basswood stringers are specified. I may as well count on breaking some formers!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 1:49pm
Great stuff already!  I'm going to be a late starter for this cook up - finishing up an old-time kit build this weekend and leaving Monday for a week of FAC flying at the meets in Muncie.  I must confess that having just about finished a 1930s design I'm thinking about switching my entry from the Joe Ott Spitfire to a peanut - Craig's build has me thumbing through my peanut notebook...

Anyway, no rush to decide before October for me.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 2:51pm
October will be here before we know it, Mike!

I haven't had time to cut balsa for weeks. It feels good! Built an impromptu ladder jig & flipped it over. Hopefully it'll allow me to hold it straight whilst running the stringers. It's pretty flimsy for a guy used to working with 3/4" scale framing timbers!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 2:55pm
I feel your pain Neal. I am redesigning the wing attachment to the fuselage to use a 'wing saddle' and I am putting a different spar in the wing - one of my usual built-up spar designs. I am intending a 'wheels-up' model for the Bonanza. I might not be able to get back to this until I get back from a trip in a week or so. Fortunately, with the laptop I can still look, even if I can't build.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 7:14am
Got some stringers run on the Grumman TBM-3- This is my first time working with 1/32"sq  basswood. It weighs about 2/3 what an equivalent length of sturdy 1/16" balsa does, and looks way less "clunky" on a small model, I think.

After it gets braced up with the stringers, the cockpit and turret floors happen- in 1/64" sheet balsa.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 9:10am
Noticing the radio operator's ventral position...nice delicate job, Craig.  I've mentioned this before...but when I was a kid I used to have occasion to watch TBM's bomb the mountainside in front of my house...literally throw their fire retardant against the rock face!  Then we'd go out to our little municipal airport to examine those aircraft up close and personal....  I was really impressed with exactly how large an Avenger was...BIG.

Got some formers attached to the box...3/32" box, 1/16" formers...taking shape.

Discovered some interesting info...seems that during WW2 the Thais and Burmese were not all enamored with their Brit brothers.  The Japanese were able to talk the existing Royal Thai Air Force into operating against the Allies...using Japanese-supplied aircraft, specifically ANNs, NATEs, and OSCARs.  While nothing serious from a tactical or strategic point of view, the Thais were able to inflict some Mustang and Lightning loses with their antiquated weapons.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 9:36am
Craig, that big hunk of steel looks kinda perilous amongst all that thin balsa!  The basswood stringers are looking nice - I remember building the Sterling peanuts with 1/32" balsa stringers and having something of a snap-fest.  Neal are you going to do the Thai colors?

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am
Mike, I wouldn't even attempt 1/32 balsa stringers! Yep, these airplanes were pretty huge. On the upside, at a 13" wingspan, it works out pretty dadgummed close to 1/48 scale, so I might be able to cheat and use actual decals. Peanut scale might test my dexterity beyond its capacity for doing tissue insignias.

Neal, I'm really liking this build you're doing, and anxiously awaiting seeing how you address the greenhouse!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 11:24am
No idea Mike, what color scheme I'm going to go with...but one thing is certain, there's quite a variety to choose from.  Many moons ago I picked up a publication that delved into the IJAAF subject of camouflage and markings...lots of info that is all prefaced with the caveat that there are always exceptions to the rule...daaaaaa. :D  That white fuselage band, for example, is supposed to indicate that the aircraft is an "operational combat type," carried on all IJAAF ac on the frontline.  Compare that to the group photo of ANNs and NATEs...with no fuselage bands at all...go figure.  Interesting education...mine.  So...lotsa fun in the future. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

The biggest concern I have Craig...involves the wing/fuselage mating...Ace/Joe seemed to like the idea of leaving it up to the modeler as to HOW to solve that riddle.  Regard it as a personal adventure.  ;)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 11:47am
Neal, when I did my AW Defiant, the wing mounting was kind of "You've built airplanes before-figure it out" too. Once I resigned myself to the idea that you built the fuse/wing assembly and THEN covered the aircraft, it all came together.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 3:00pm
I see (2) good looking aircraft already started for the cookup.

Craig:
your TBF took off fast that wing is a work of art to me and your wood looks so pristine, who is your supplier.

Neal: I looked at your "Ki" plan and it was too intricate for this old garage builder. She is looking good and I cannot wait to see which scheme you choose.

I chose the Joe Ott P-51 and Martin Maryland.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 3:12pm
That Defiant wing was fun to build. I buy my Balsa from SIG, for the most part.

I'm going to call this a fuselage, I think... The designer said his prototype came in at just under 10g AUW, minus rubber. I'll be happy if I can bring this one in under 12.5. It's getting Kida chunky :)
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 3:17pm
That Defiant wing was fun to build. I buy my Balsa from SIG, for the most part.

I'm going to call this a fuselage, I think... The designer said his prototype came in at just under 10g AUW, minus rubber. I'll be happy if I can bring this one in under 12.5. It's getting kinda chunky :)

The plan called for the turret coaming to be made of "postcard or lithoplate." I used a piece of 4lb 1/64 stock (the same as the cockpit "floor), and left the pattern, traced onto vellum, glued to it on the inside with PVA.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 5:17pm
Bob...do you ever just build ONE MODEL AT A TIME?  ;D ;D ;D  Every time you get rolling...I swear it's a multiple build effort!  Looking good...and I don't believe a deceptive word of that "old garage builder" stuff!  ;)  I recall...I think...that you started an Ott B-17 some years ago for a friend...still got that project around?

Super fuselage, Craig...delicate work...very nice.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Yeh...the wing setup is a "you figure things out yourself" kind of approach on the Ott/Whitman plans.  I ran into it on my Airabonita/Airacobra build...and did it to myself on my recent General Aviation GA43 model.  Found myself covering an already assembled model.  It slowed things down...but was definitely "do-able."

Got some stringers attached on "Annie," 1/16"sq...nothing as delicate as 1/32."

You-all are doin' great! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 5:29pm
Neal, the B-17 was a commission build, but when the person did not come through with their promise the build stopped.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 6:27pm
I think I like this method of carving a prop. It's easy to keep the pitch, undercamber, and thickness symmetrical.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 8:16pm
great looking prop.  I'll have to give that a go.  I read recently (somewhere can't remember just where) that the author covered his prop with dryer sheets and dope or CA for additional strength.  I'm gonna have to give this prop process a try.  I've always cut out a block and trimmed to shape and started carving.  Keep up the great work!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 23rd, 2018 at 10:51pm
Craig, that is a nice looking prop and the photos  help.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 24th, 2018 at 7:11am
Wow everybody is doing incredible work and everything is looking better than all I've seen in the past. I started my F6F fuselage in 1/16th and it proved too frail for my hands so abandoned it and went with 3/32nd. It's all framed up and ready for formers however my wife is standing by the front door so pictures this afternoon.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 24th, 2018 at 1:36pm
Fuselage framed up and ready for formers. Both shown and maybe sometime later I can tackle the 1/16th frame and finish it. Was looking at the drawings and the frame looks to be  of larger wood than the formers, so, maybe it was planned that way but I'm going with this. Since I strip my own wood, I chose my lightest 3/32 for the frame and should be able to get this in pretty light.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 24th, 2018 at 9:42pm
Looks good, Mike...why don't you just go ahead and build two Hellcats...seems you're already on your way! ;D

Personally...I'm just about ready to begin a peanut scale build...a Ki-27 NATE to keep ANNIE company.

Meanwhile...more progress on the main feature....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 25th, 2018 at 6:59am
I got ribs cut for one wing :)

Meanwhile- I finished the prop, for now. Allan Callaghan suggest no free-wheeler "because the challenge is to have it land with one turn left on the motor." I may go with one anyway. I love the look, but if it needs nose weight I'll reinforce it with a layer of doped vellum.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 25th, 2018 at 8:02am

Quote:
why don't you just go ahead and build two Hellcats

Thank Neil for the good words and my original plan was one Hellcat and move on to the Luscombe Phantom until it started to be more work than fun with the 1/16 frame. I may finish the other Hellcat this winter when I'm house bound, it would really be wrong to not finish it.

Craig - Really nice job on that propeller, very smooth and no joint lines and the fuselage is also coming along in your usual great work. This prop should work great and looking forward to more pictures. What was your starting data, diameter, pitch and placement of the pitch jigs?
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 25th, 2018 at 11:51am
Poor little NATE (Nakajima Ki-27 Army Type 97 Fighter) was literally obsolete by the advent of the Pearl Harbor attack.  Accepted as Japan’s primary frontline fighter aircraft in 1937, it was slow, under-armed, and lacking in all the “necessary” amenities for participation in a world war.  It was however, supremely maneuverable…and an excellent dog-fighter against even its most advanced opponents.  It was easily the most numerous aircraft of its type available to Japan at the outbreak of war, some 3,368 units having been produced before its secession of manufacture in 1942.  Even by 1945, a well-flown NATE could be a dangerous adversary for any unwary Allied opponent.  Isn’t this interesting?

Sorry…I’ve just got to bring this subject up…the vulnerability of Japanese fighters of all types when encountering heavily armed and armored Allied opponents…how could Japan ignore the safety of their pilots?  The answer is simple…it amounts to a persistence in following the philosophy of maneuverability…a philosophy borne of the First World War and followed world-wide throughout the 20’s and 30’s.  Japan stressed the ability of an aircraft/pilot to dogfight as paramount beyond any other characteristic.  It was primarily a matter of power to weight ratio…whatever it took within a design to achieve a successful equivalent.  Credit German and British designers who influenced the United States concerning the need for armor plate as well as self-sealing fuel tanks.  When these “necessities” were addressed by additions to existing designs, the resultant performance decline proved a marked disaster.  It was not until purposeful designs were introduced in 1943 that the balance against Japanese airpower changed.

The Brewster Buffalo is my favorite example of a pre-WW2 design that proved highly successful in combat…while in it’s pre-WW2 state as the export Model B-239 (Finland, Malaysia, Burma), but in it’s “bulked up” condition, was an abject failure against the Zero over Midway Island (as were all Allied aircraft).  Incidentally, what type aircraft were being destroyed by the Finns over the USSR?  Hurricanes, Spitfires, P-40’s, Airacobras, as well as various Russian types…all heavily armed and armored…far less maneuverable aircraft than the export model Buffalo.  Take that info to the bank.

The old story about the superiority/inferiority of Japanese aircraft…as well as same concerning Allied aircraft at the outset of WW2…is only rarely addressed with any consideration of reality.  Whew...thanks, guys.  :-X

Well…so here’s a NATE…peanut scale…design credit to “Professor” Walt Mooney.

Neal

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 25th, 2018 at 12:13pm
Looks like an explosion of building for this cookup. LOVE what I see.

More work on the Maryland fuselage. First photo is of the second side being constructed on the firs, second photo is my simple separation of the two sides.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 25th, 2018 at 5:29pm
Boy, this cookup IS building in intensity and excitement- And what a bunch of interesting choices! Everything looks great!

Mike, I'd like to say the math and design are all mine, but I have to admit all the lofting was done by the designer and present on the plan. The diameter is 6"- the pitch is "a good bit" The pitch block is "C" in the upper left corner of this pic. My only modification was to do it in 1/32" stock- I tried laying it out in 1/16" lumber first, but wasn't happy with the edge overlap towards the tip- just not enough glue area.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 26th, 2018 at 8:55am
The really nice thing about a peanut scale build is that they can be so uncomplicated...even relaxing.  This NATE is a nice place to expend the scraps from my ANN build.  Got the empennage and wing done...now for the fuselage.

Included a couple of photos that illustrate a problem the Japanese encountered while using unimproved airfields...mud and debris inside those classic wheelpants.  Could cause some real headaches.  ANN's "open" wheelpants constituted an attempt to facilitate easy cleaning of that mud away from the wheel.  NATE had another solution altogether...eliminate the wheelpants!  When Navy VALs began operating from island runways, the same solution was applied.  Ah...the unforeseen contingencies of war.

Oh...did I mention...ANN's got a bit of wing now...and a landing gear.  Spinner's a bit of scrap from my misc parts box. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 26th, 2018 at 10:42am
Neal,
Looking very good!   [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 27th, 2018 at 9:54am
OK Neal, up on its wheels already, nice work. Looking forward to your cockpit work, always great stuff.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 27th, 2018 at 10:34am
Got the wheelpants on her...I don't think that I planned this stage very well...original plan looked pretty weak so of course I incorporated some wire into things...installing the pants over the wire proved a challenge...at least for me.  A little spackle...tissue, dope, etc...and I hope the Bride of Frank(enstein) will turn into a celebrity. ;)  Comet hardwood wheels...I know, weight.  Maybe time to get some wings on ANNie....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 27th, 2018 at 5:50pm
Wow!  A flurry of power-building going on amongst this group!  Uhhhh...where is everyone?

NATE has a fuselage...1/16"sq crutch, 1/32" bulkheads and stringers.  Thought I would do a pass-through on the horz stab...but then I had to build that crutch a second time and the pass-through went south.  I'll figure it out....down the road.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 27th, 2018 at 6:01pm
Neal, nice job on the KI, it really is coming together beautifully.

Craig, I have seen that prop assembly before, but you made it look like I could actually build one. I may try.

OK! Here is my try at Joe Ott's P-51, the Maryland is drying at the moment.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Sep 27th, 2018 at 6:13pm
Japanese pre war warbirds are awesome! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 27th, 2018 at 7:57pm
TBM-3 progress... Got a wing built in three days! 5/8" dihedral from R2 out, with 1/16" washout built into the dihedral setting block. The spars are all spliced at R2- since I had the luxury of dealing with a fat 1/16" R2 rib, I used the extra thickness and centered the splices at the rib centerline. It seemed solid when I sanded it out, but I may stick in some small manila paper gussets for good luck.

Calaghan said the wing slots could be omitted, but they were quite effective at stabilizing the model in flight. They were fiddly little things to build, but as I need all the stabilization I can get, there they are!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 28th, 2018 at 10:22am
Nice process photos, Bob...moving along nicely! I'm afraid I've more or less used my Ace Whitman plan as a starting point for my many mods...but you're pretty well sticking to the theme...ribs and all!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Thanks Alfredo...Japanese ac were pretty unique in their schemes...almost as if they possessed a spirit of their own.  Maybe it's the names the Japanese gave them...like individual mounts, horses...chargers.  I've always liked the way the IJAAF ac nearly always had a "splash" of color located somewhere...sort of defiant to the idea of camouflage and concealment.

Wing slots on a peanut...OH MY!  That looks really "slick," Craig!  :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 28th, 2018 at 5:35pm
Pants for Nate.  Installed some wire LG in the wing...don't think Walt did so on his original.  It all adds up in weight.  I may have to slow down my building....too much balsa dust.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 28th, 2018 at 6:33pm
Get an Australian Shepherd, Neal. Best dust collector on the planet!


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 28th, 2018 at 7:03pm
Craig...I used to tell my kids that when the Earth started out it was only as big as a golf ball...but over five billion years it's grown a bit.  They didn't want to believe that, so I'd ask them why they thought it was that every time an archeologist finds something...they have to dig it out?  See...just a big dust ball!  Law of stratification...proves it! ;D ;D ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 29th, 2018 at 9:14am
Empennage for ANNie.  Whitman says these outlines are "exact scale," but that would only be in their eyes...probably extrapolated from newspaper photos...at strange angles.  We'll have to take their word for it as there are no Ki-30's remaining.  It's all good enough for this modeler, however.

Bottom photo looks like the entire Sentai (Wing) is in the air...probably all the way from Formosa (Taiwan) and just crossing the coast of Luzon Island.  Invasion force has already arrived below.

Wings are in the works.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:02am
Better late than never! Too busy with the P-47 and Loire46 to notice this.

I have been mulling over the next project, somewhere around 18"-21", so why not downscale to 13" and join the party!!??


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:05am
When I did the Defiant, the empennage was "scale"- and way too small to fly well. The yaw in the glide tests scared me so bad I'm going to build a bigger fin before I attempt to re-kit it under power. Maybe a clip-on extension?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:10am
Those bones look great sitting on those wheels, Neal. But the 'sort of scale' wing area looks a trifle lacking. Call me a pessimist, but I have a feeling that it won't glide very well. :D
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:15am
The clipped-wing ANN was fast at Cleveland, though :)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:28am

Kerak wrote on Sep 25th, 2018 at 11:51am:
...The old story about the superiority/inferiority of Japanese aircraft…as well as same concerning Allied aircraft at the outset of WW2…is only rarely addressed with any consideration of reality. 


Generalizations are always risky business. In the fighter business, more often than not, the question boiled down to classifying aircraft as being an "angles" or "energy" fighter. That would potentially vary depending on what the comparison was...an "energy" fighter in one comparison might be a "angles" fighter in another.

"Angles" fighters were classed as such because of their maneuverability (usually turning and climbing capabilities). "Energy" fighters were rated as such because of their top speeds and acceleration rates.

In Neal's example, the Buffalo in Finnish hands would have been an angles fighter, but at Midway it was definitely an energy fighter (if anything at all).

But just as important (if not more important) was pilot training. A reading of Saburo Sakai's autobiography makes it abundantly clear how different Japanese fighter training was as compared to US. As the war wore on and Japanese pilot losses mounted, the quality of their pilots grew markedly poorer.

The bottom line in fighter combat often was this. Pilots (not airplanes) did not win fights, the other guy screwed up in whatever he was flying and lost.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:51am
Jump in Alfakilo and join the cookup!  Still taking care of things and haven't gotten started yet.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 29th, 2018 at 11:01am
Last night and this morning's endeavor. Never having tried molding a canopy before, I was a bit apprehensive. I had the stuff drug out to build a vac box, but since this model is so small, and the canopy needs to be light, I decided to jump into the shallow end of the pool and try plunge-molding first.

The acetate sheet I used was a leaf from an old "static cling" photo album. I don't have a micrometer at hand at the house, but my finely-calibrated eye pegs it at about .0035"

It took a few tries- seems like 1 minute in the oven at 265 degrees and moving quickly was the ticket.

Framing is Esaki/glue-stick
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 29th, 2018 at 11:42am
Nice work, Craig!  Canopies and fillets are enough by themselves to direct me toward WWI models.  ;D

Really enjoyed your comments, Alf.  Speaking of Sakai...as an example of your statement (may I paraphrase) that it's as much the man as the aircraft...how about Sakai being bounced by no less than fifteen Hellcats over Iwo late in the war...survived to tell the tale...verified by all his comrades watching from below...and not a single hit on his aircraft!  That's the difference when a highly skilled pilot is at the controls...and a bit of luck as well.

Speaking of "angles" vs "energy," over Midway, Marion Carl had enough sense after scoring in a head-on attack, to then forget the "angles" and follow an "energy" tactic by diving away...to live another day.  Buffalo had been "upgraded" from aerobatic to slow, sluggish, and underpowered.  All it had going for it at Midway was a high dive speed...and Carl used it correctly.  That became the Allied aerial tactic for the first two years of war against the Japanese.

Been thinking of you Alf...you seem to have a lock on the gull wing.  Ever considered building a Polish PZL fighter?  I think there's a peanut plan out there.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 12:22pm

Kerak wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 11:42am:
Been thinking of you Alf...you seem to have a lock on the gull wing.  Ever considered building a Polish PZL fighter?  I think there's a peanut plan out there.


I did, the PZL P7 (different tail shape). Still not quite finished, built it years ago and lost interest along the way. Last spring, when I joined the forum, I was looking for how to do the markings. Tried waterslide decals, that didn't work very well. Ended up with tissue that wasn't the best either.

I think I built it from a Cleveland plan, about a 24" span.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 29th, 2018 at 1:12pm
Well Alf...that certainly looks pretty nice to me...don't be so hard on yourself!  Put some wheels on her and call her a beauty! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  I'd take her to the dance any time.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 29th, 2018 at 2:56pm
Craig...that'll gett-er done!  Looks good! I use plunge molding a lot for smaller aircraft canopies and parts.

Alfa...that PZL looks fantastic, is it a PZL P.11?...finish her up. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 3:41pm

Sky9pilot wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Alfa...that PZL looks fantastic, is it a PZL P.11?...finish her up.
Tom


P7. Preceded the P11. Less horsepower, slower, otherwise similar. I did it rather than the P11 because I liked the tail design better.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 29th, 2018 at 3:47pm
For me, alot of the time the vertical fin and rudder shape will seal the deal for me in choosing a model to build! 

I see your box is marked correctly too!!! :D ;D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 3:55pm
A while back, we were chatting about this model. I downsized the Lindberg plan. I hope it adds some excitement to the cook-up!

It looks to be a building challenge, a lot of detail for its small size and a few construction questions that the plan leaves unanswered, such as how are the nacelles built and wing attached. Little things like that!!

I was thinking about changing to a keel/former design but may keep to the box structure because I need the practice in that technique. I've got some Bob Holman box alignment tools to try out.

https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=91166&mode=search
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 29th, 2018 at 4:46pm
So you're going to build a Stinson Model A trimotor in peanut scale "13" span model!!! You are a glutton for punishment.  I assume that you'll only be powering the central prop for rubber power? 

This one's on my "To Do" list for quite some time.  Just haven't gotten around to it.  So I'll follow your build closely. 

I just looked at the link to the plan and after looking at the plan there are a couple of ways to attack the wing.  I'd go for a "one-piece" wing with 1/64" ply laminated to the central spar out to each nacelle. 

As far as the nacelles are concerned, it depends on whether you'll be trying to use rubber powered props in them or just small scale props and a central prop on the nose for power.

If not powered it would be easy to use formers and stringers to build the shape on the wing top and bottom....
If powered you'll need to sandwich the spar with rings that will pick up the spars and support them and the wing on to the tips unless you build a three piece wing with the outer tips added later.   The rings will allow the spar in the rings to be removed for rubber to pass through.  Check out the XP-67 Moonbat build to get a similar idea of the of how those nacelles were built starting at reply #75: Click Here
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Sep 29th, 2018 at 5:00pm
Alf, if you finish the Stinson Model A plans. Please post them so I may enlarge to a 30" wing span.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:02pm

bigrip74 wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 5:00pm:
Alf, if you finish the Stinson Model A plans. Please post them so I may enlarge to a 30" wing span.Bob


Bob, the plan is 31". Download the pdf file from AeroFred (my link previous post) and you should be all set.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:07pm
Starting work on the Bonanza. Built up spar made from 1/32 sheet. Top and bottom strips are 1/8" wide. I use a bamboo coffee stirrer for a spacer to lift the spar above the board to make the 'I-beam'. The lego idea that was posted on this board I adopted to keep the top and bottom strips aligned and clamped while drying. I used crayon on the bamboo to keep it from sticking to the layup. One finished spar weighs in at a whopping 0.4 grams before being cut to size. That is 0.8 g for the entire wing. The spar is made in 3 sections. The inner spar is an 'I-beam', the middle section is a 'T-spar' and the outer section is only a vertical piece of 1/32. This reduces the overall weight of a full I-beam, leaving maximum wing strength toward the root where it is needed, and not at the wingtip where it isn't.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 29th, 2018 at 6:13pm

Sky9pilot wrote on Sep 29th, 2018 at 4:46pm:
So you're going to build a Stinson Model A trimotor in peanut scale "13" span model!!! You are a glutton for punishment.  I assume that you'll only be powering the central prop for rubber power? Tom


Yes, just a single nose prop. Built up nacelles using a central keel, formers, and 1/32 stringers.

It seems Lindberg built the wing in 5 sections...a center fuselage piece, and two inboard and outboard sections. My plan is to go with the center section and two complete wing halves that are built using additional spars to join the inboard and outboard pieces in the plan. The varying chord and camber keeps things interesting!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 29th, 2018 at 9:30pm
“Konnichiwa”  Outer wing panels are now attached on the Ki-30.  What we now have is the "basic beast."

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:06pm
No fair having your model built in two weeks!!! ;D :D ;)
Looking fantastic!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 29th, 2018 at 10:16pm
Oh...that's not "built," Tom...still have all the "pain" of dealing with the wing roots and fillets and canopy and of course covering.  Remember...I love gluing sticks together...all that other "stuff" is work.  ;)

Besides...I'm still nursing NATE along, albeit pretty far along.

So...here for the long haul.  Besides...Ray says he's gonna build that B-17...wouldn't miss that for anything...not to mention JACK!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

PS...Thanks, Tom.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am
Yeah, yeah- I know I'm breaking with tradition by not waiting to get a "bones" shot, but I needed some instant gratification. I still need to do the ventral gunport- The designer recommended leaving it unglazed for rear motor access. I may do that until I get the motor sorted.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:57am
Very nice! The vacuforms look great!

I'm looking for a dark blue tissue. Where did you get yours?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:02am
Thanks! It's Esaki- I buy it from Volare.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:50am
Looks like a "war-winner," Craig.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

More in "keeping with tradition," bone shots...Nakajima and a "group shot" with Mitsubishi.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:55am
Beautiful work, Neal! If I'm not careful, I get so enamored of them naked that I don't want to cover them. I have to trick myself!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:33pm
Craig - Great work and the canopy is truly a great feature, nice work on the molding and detailing. I'm assuming the canopy trim is blue tissue?

Neal - Great work on your planes, I'm really jealous of your speed. I'm in there too, like gluing stuff together but covering is not one of my strong qualities. Practice and perfection so they say.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:40pm
F6F Hellcat

Got the stringers installed, horizontal stab done and man this 1/16th wood is really fragile. Not looking forward to covering it. Wing is half done. The ribs are fully symmetrical so split them along the leading edge line and left enough at the trailing edge to glue to the trailing edge pieces. I will put in a 1/16 spar in the top ribs to hold it together so I can turn it over, add the rest of the rib pieces and add the bottom spar. The plans called for a 1/16 x 1/8 spar on the bottom only but I have not been successful doing that method. On to the vertical stab and the canopy plug since my vacuum form system is up and running. More soon.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Sep 30th, 2018 at 2:01pm
AK - I have just gotten caught up on your thread (this is what happens when I don't check in every day) and have to agree with Tom, lotta work but I'm sure it will be great as always. Looking forward to more progress.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 30th, 2018 at 4:56pm

New Builder wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 2:01pm:
AK - I have just gotten caught up on your thread (this is what happens when I don't check in every day) and have to agree with Tom, lotta work but I'm sure it will be great as always. Looking forward to more progress.
Mike


It definitely is more to this than the plan shows. Haven't decided yet on fuselage box or keel technique.

I'm going to redo the wing/nacelle structure to increase dihedral while simplifying ribs and spars. Added a new wing rib between nacelle and fuselage. Added a new top spar and moved the existing bottom spar, both will attach to existing nacelle carry-thru formers. Added a nacelle carry-thru to join the leading edges. Will also have to improve the wing/fuselage attachment. Modifying nacelle shape to conform more with real aircraft.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Sep 30th, 2018 at 5:05pm
I'd be really tempted to do a cracked ribe wing on your Stinson, Alfa.  I understand making the changes to the plan.  I struggle building any plane strickly to plan.  Just me and my building style.  I do love the subject though!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Sep 30th, 2018 at 6:23pm
Only one of these puppies left flying! The attached link has some great pics of it and is the inspiration for the build. What a neat airplane!

http://www.platinumfighters.com/stinson6000a

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:59am
Alfa, I agree with Tom. The split rib would be the way to go on building the wing.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:53am
I'm not sure that I understand how this cracked rib method would work in this case. See attached picture. Flat bottom or a "double" cracked rib?


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:54am
AK - Take a look at my rubber power Marcoux Bromberg build. I used the cracked rib method there and in one of the posts I show my drawing of the rib setup. This is helpful in setting the wing saddle and incidence. The split rib method works well also. I'm using it in my F6F Hellcat build in the cookup and it works well also. Your building is top notch and what ever you decide on will be great I'm sure.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:43am
I understand the cracked rib idea, I'm just undecided how to use it in this model. The variable camber along with the nacelle make the idea a little more of a challenge.

The plan doesn't help at all. It shows the ribs as being very much like a Clark Y profile while the head on view of the wing suggests a symmetrical profile. The photos of the airplane make it clear that the airfoil was more of a Clark Y shape (and this works well in a cracked rib situation).

I've redone the head on view with a Clark type cracked rib type construction. Is this what you have in mind?
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:12am
Alfakilo...the cracked rib suggestion is just what I'd probably do, because I don't like making ribs and this allows a much quicker build.  The placement of the spar and secondary spar will help determine the rib outline.  Some will add a strip of balsa from the L.E. to the main spar, sanded to shape of airfoil, to get a more round airfoil on the ribs.  I usually add turbulator strips between the spar and L.E. to get the airfoil curve I think looks proper.

Your front perspective drawing looks very good.  Please don't feel any pressure from my part on building this wing.  It is a complicated wing and I tend to use the "KISS" principle in building wings.  "Keep It Simple Silly" speaking of myself...not that any of our modelers are silly!   :D ;)  I think there's another term for "Silly" but my Mom wouldn't let me use that term!!! ;D :D ;) ::)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:42pm
Gary has some detail pictures of this Stinson Model A: Click Here
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 10:08am
Nice work guys. Sorry I have not been able to start mine. Back to working 12hr days six days a week. But i should have time this weekend to get started. Better late than never.
;D

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 10:18am

Sky9pilot wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:42pm:
Gary has some detail pictures of this Stinson Model A: Click Here
Tom


Excellent! I haven't seen these, thanks much!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm
I'm thinking the Stinson is too complicated to model in a 13" span, so I'm going to build an 18" model. To replace it in the cook-up, I'm looking at the Magni Vale, a 30s Italian machine. Very attractive!

It's a sesquiplane but won't be built as such. The wing strut has two pieces, the back part is attached to the aileron linkage and moves when the aileron moves, sort of like a mini-second wing (hence the term sesquiplane). See the attachment in the Vale 06 pic.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 10:15pm
NATE has skin.  This was a delicate job...all 1/32" bulkheads...all stringers 1/32."  Don't ask how many I've broken along the way...probably all of them!

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 6:13am
That is drop-dead gorgeous! What a fine piece of craftsmanship!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:09am
Completely agree, superb tissue and building work as always.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 8:14am
Even more impressive when seen in actual size! What a jewel!!

Can't wait to see the paint job!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 9:52am
ありがとうございました...Thank you, All...but as we've been talking around the SnT site of late, photography can be a wonderful thing...meaning that we all KNOW the truth of imperfection in our work.  ;)  I'm certainly no different in that regard.  Covering NATE turned into something of an arduous task...albeit of my own making...a bit meticulous when it really didn't need be.

Of interest for me...I've been a "notch man" for well more than half a century now, but building my two latest peanuts, I've gone with the "new" method (for me) of scabbing stringers onto the outside edge of formers.  My STEARMAN went easy, but NATE...for various reasons (alignment of fuselage!) I had to attach the wing and horizontal tail surfaces without covering.  That in turn led to covering the entire fuselage in long narrow individual strips...no termination points between station one and the extreme tail...whereas in past builds using notches always allowed me to cover in small panels where necessary.  Dealing with those 1/32" stringers became..."meticulous."  There are definitely pros and cons to using either stringer-attachment method.

I used a very light cream-colored tissue for the covering...and having just weighed things, NATE's already at the max...so a painted finish is out of the question.  Detail paint and a canopy will have to conclude this build.

"Arigatōgozaimashita"

Neal

PS...I've probably constructed 6 or 7 Japanese model aircraft during my life...all the way from rc jobs to rubber...and every one of them has been...a ZERO.  It's really nice to expand the subject.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Caught this little puppy trying to get airborne off my desk!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 4th, 2018 at 5:05pm
Neal, that is just too spiffy for words!

I agree about the exterior stringers making covering more difficult, had the same problem with the Loire. I'm going to use the same technique on the Vale and will keep my fingers crossed.

Here's the start to the Vale fuselage. Changed from a box to a keel method, everything is 1/32. Unlike before, this time I drilled out the extra former and keel wood before putting stringers on. Just to be safe, I added thin strips to stiffen the formers up.

To do this, I used the Dremel lightweight rotary tool, replacing the Harbor Freight version. $55 at Walmart, but it is worth the cost. Very smooth and the variable RPM is nice. The collet lock works much better than the HF cheapo. 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-2050-11-Stylo-Versatile-Craft-Tool/161506451
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 4th, 2018 at 5:40pm
You're on your way again, Alf...love the tail on the VALE...looks so fast that the empennage becomes a blur...looks like it's being left behind.  :D

Hey...too late...but a discovery by myself...I installed the second fuselage former on NATE as you've done...grain running vertically...before I noticed that ol' Walt Mooney was showing the grain running horizontally.  Ok...so I installed the remaining formers as per Walt.  Now...which former failed when I started attaching stringers...yes...the only one that had the grain running vertically.  So...I replaced it...and all was well.  You've already reinforced those on VALE...so things will be ok...but for future builds...maybe Walt had a better idea.   ;)

Actually...the more I look at VALE and how much you've opened up the formers...looks perfect the way it's reinforced.  So...what do I know?????  :-[

I found that any spot that I knew ahead of time the tissue would be terminated...like around the cockpit...building up the former with a bit of stringer material allowed for a good tissue termination.

Dremel's a great tool...inherited one from my uncle 40 years ago...and it's still working just fine. Every time I use it I think of him...that's the idea, right? He was a machinist and used to allow me to cut things to pieces on his expensive lathe when I was a kid.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

VALE is lookin' good, Alf! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 4th, 2018 at 5:47pm
Gentlemen...if you need a glue strip on the fuselage for tissue it's very easy to make by cutting a strip of 1/16" or 1/32" balsa two to three inches long, the size of the space between the stringer with the grain running vertical across the width.  Glue in the space where the needed glue strip is needed and because the grain runs from stringer to stringer it's easy to trim for the next glue strip. Leaving almost a two inch piece for the next glue strip.  I'll draw up a pic and post later.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:45pm
Believe that was more or less what I was saying Tom...except that I usually add the strip at the former edge...less flex...greater strength...but comes out the same.  Many models use a mix of both notched stringers and surface-mounted stringers....

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:36pm
Just adding the detail paint..."working" my way to a build conclusion....

Tail markings and that dreaded canopy pull remain.  Markings are for a Home Defense fighter 1943.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 5th, 2018 at 12:28pm
Good morning "Gentlemen."  I use that term with sincere respect.

Found some interesting photos of an actual NATE...present day condition.  Seems the Japanese often times display a "restored" aircraft in a "preserved" state, restored only in the sense that its further deterioration has been arrested.  Interesting...I suppose it is again, a sort of respect for the "spirit" of the machine and all that it has been through.

Photo 1 shows a number of items to good effect...two auxiliary fuel tanks outside of that centerline bomb.  Also note the annular oil cooler ring directly behind the propeller.  The wheels, what can be seen of them, appear to be wire-spoked with covers.

Photo 2 is interesting in that no sliding canopy cover is evident.  Early Ki27 aircraft, although adorned with all that was necessary for an enclosed cockpit, followed a pilot's preference for "feeling the wind" as well as the high visibility of an open canopy.  Also interesting is the not uncommon continued use (1936) of an aldis-type gun sight.  Of note are the two service openings on either wing toward the leading edge.  Allowed servicing the landing gear strut from above.

My own NATE is nearly complete....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 5th, 2018 at 12:35pm
Neal,
She's a beauty!  Well done job on the markings.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:47pm
Thanks, Tom! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I suppose this is the stage at which a model takes on an identity....

Got the all-important tail markings in place.  Model represents a Ki27 serving in the home defense role at Kakogawa IJAAB, protecting the Osaka-Kobe region at the beginning of 1943.  The Doolittle Raid during March of 1942 shook people up, necessitating a "more serious assessment" of the Home Island's air defense.  Ki27 was already outmatched for that purpose.

Tail marking represents the 1st Chutai (squadron) of the 246th Sentai (Air Wing).  I don't know whether that's a 3-leaf clover or...what?  I'm certain they knew.  ;)  NATE in the painting is of the 3rd Chutai, 246th Sentai.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:41pm
Yep Neal, they start coming alive!  Great choice for markings.  I like that second picture of the markings!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 5th, 2018 at 6:36pm
Funny thing about those tail markings...I hand-painted the lightning flash...but it didn't come out like that beautiful painting...so I had to change the position of that whateveritis symbol.  Then I started doing research on the specific Sentai...and discovered there were quite a few variations of that symbol!  So....whatever I painted...call it individualism.  :D  None of it really matters anyway.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Just remember Tom...when you build JACK...in the true spirit (no pun intended) of the Japanese...it's got a spirit of its own.  "Feel the Force, Luke...."  ;D ;D ;D  When you think about it...if a samurai sword has a soul...why wouldn't a Japanese combat aircraft?  Makes sense to me. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Looking forward to your build. ;)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:30pm
Now how does this canopy plug...errr buck...work?  I just glue it on, right?  ;)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:35pm

Kerak wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Now how does this canopy plug...errr buck...work?  I just glue it on, right?  ;)  Neal


I know you're kidding and must say...that's a particularly nice looking plug. Are you adding something to the plug to represent the canopy framework?  That's going to look very good! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:55pm
Thanks, Tom.

I still don't have a v-box...and no, I'm just going to "pull" a simple canopy...BUT...you're right, Tom...I have seen v-box canopies that a paper framework has been added to the plug...comes out looking great...like out of a real kit box.  ;D ;D ;D  I was just doodling...thought the plain wooden plug looked a bit boring.  8-)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:52am
I completely understand...that's why I have to keep doing mock-ups at each stage of my builds, engine noises and machine gun sounds optional. :o ::) :D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 6th, 2018 at 12:32pm
Canopy (and backup) has been pulled...material from pumpkin chocolate chip cookies container via local independent grocer.  Wife has volunteered to keep us well supplied.  (She really did say that!  :D)  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] ;D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:43pm
"And now ladies and gentlemen...tonight on our stage...I have the pleasure to present to you"...my latest pride and joy....

In peanut scale, weighing in at 19.6g...Nakajima Ki-27a Army Type 97 Fighter Aircraft, Allied Code Name NATE.... 

We thank you.

Craig...where is that Avenger?

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:18pm
She's a beauty! A little pudgy, but a beauty nonetheless!
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:22pm
Nice to have support from the wifey!  Mine is supportive that way too.  She checks before she tosses any of those possible modeling supplies. ;D ;)

Your Nate is fantastic!!!  Love the pic with the spinning prop! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:25am
I LOVE it, Neal! Life has gotten hectic- I hope to get a little more time in on the TBM-3 today. I've been building vicariously through you guys!


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:30am
F6F Hellcat
Wow Neal - great work again and nice canopy work. My wife has started asking about the plastic as well except now she adds, "gonna start using these soon?" Answer is yes and in this pic sequence the plug is going, again.

Craig, understand completely about the hectic life. We have never been so busy now that we are retired. Slows down my building time but winter will allow more days to build.

Got really into putting in stringers on the Hellcat and closed up the access for the wing. It is way far up in the fuselage so had to clip out three stringers and cut away part of the trailing edge of the wing to get it in. Will need to add the tisssue in that area after assembly. Thinking also of using Alfredo's foam method to cover the missing area. The second canopy plug is underway. First one went really bad so this one will definitely be the one and will be ready to pull (stretch) my first canopy.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 7th, 2018 at 2:12pm
Thanks guys. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

As for "pudgy" Ian, except for my adding wire to the lg...which I don't believe Mooney did...what you see is what the "Ol' Professor" called for.  So be it....  That fixed landing gear with pants added a "ton" of weight.  :o

Now it's back to "work" on ANNIE...covering time.  I've got an "expert" reference book on Japanese Army aircraft camouflage...which prefaces everything with the word "exceptions."  So...I intend to start with light grey tissue and see what evolves.  I do have an initial idea of where I'm headed...31st Sentai...transitioned from overall light grey to splotches to brown and green as the war went along...as will I, I'm certain.  ;D ;D ;D

Stab/rudder stripes indicate chutai (squadron).  White fuselage band indicates "operational combat aircraft."  Red band on the color detail view indicates command aircraft.

Incidentally...I've always considered that Japanese aircraft in the field looked like they were using whatever paint was available...but turns out there really were five officially authorized schemes!

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:46pm
hats off for that Ki-27 :o

super nice one!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:58pm
Hey, the pudgy is on the Japanese and their design, not you!!  As has been said the Japanese aircraft of WWII were very interesting and full of character!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:17pm
Thank you again, Friends...appreciate you all.

Hey Mike (New Builder)...read your comment to Alfredo about using foam...I'm watching, too.  Those Ace Whitman models love to complicate wing attachment and wing root finishing.  Someone back in 1946 building your Hellcat would have been scratching their head..."Foam? Isn't that the stuff on top of a beer glass?"  ;D ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:33am
Foam on a beer glass is my number one use for the stuff, otherwise it's cut and sand. You are very right about the wing attachment. I thought I new all about it but as one can see, it's not always obvious. Found that the curved bottom longeron sets the wing location and the incidence. At least it came up in the gray matter before the tissue went on. The foam filler is really intriguing and I'm doing a couple of samples to get the hang of it. Film at eleven.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:06am
Well Mike...I noticed some time back that many of these Ott-Whitman plans leave solution of the wing-fuselage problem up to the skill of the builder...and "it ain't easy."  ;)  Right now I'm "scratching" my head over the very same challenge with my ANNIE, covering that wing-root area.

As for the foam/tissue solution...I believe it should start with that beer glass...maybe several of them.  ;D ;D ;D  If you look back into the various SnT builds, you'll see that Alfredo is really adept at using foam in his builds...and I suspect he makes it look easier than the process really is for the neophyte...in fact, Alfredo's a wolf in sheep's clothing, i.e., an expert.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Best of fortune with the foam approach...I hope to learn from your experience.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:27am
Vale progress report. Originally did the tail pieces in laminated 1/32  stringers but the small size didn't turn out too well. Given the amount of fill and sanding that was needed, decided to use well sanded 1/32 laminate sheet instead. Probably a little heavier, such is life.

Wing went OK with the cracked ribs. May add some truss bracing, but the wing is pretty sturdy as is. Took Tom's advice about using 1/16 and had some light stuff that worked OK.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:50am
AK that looks really cool.  Very nice woodwork on the fuselage and tail surfaces.  If you have a scale please post the weight of the bones.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:00pm
WoW...the Alfakilo Aircraft Corporation is really cranking out the aircraft!!!  This looks fantastic! Love the wing and the fuselage looks very smooth so you've really captured the smooth lines!  BEAUTIFUL!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm
AK - a suggestion:  if you're going to fly this one, move the rear motor peg forward to just aft of the cockpit and raise it up to just above the center of the fuselage.  That will help offset the weight of the sheet stab and fin and should require substantially less weight to balance the model.  The fuselage looks plenty big enough to hold a motor 2 or 3 times the hook-peg distance without getting the motor caught on internal structure.

Cheers,

Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:58pm
Well AK, that is fine looking construction and obviously a lot of detailed hard work in the fuselage. Well done  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I got a little bit done on the Bonanza. Since I love building wings, I started there first. The center section is a box that will end up fitting into the fuselage after the wing is covered, but before the fuselage is covered. You can see it best in pic #2. The built-up spars ended up weighing only 0.4 grams more than the original spar would have, but they are much stronger. The forward part of the ribs are 1/32 hard, and the trailing parts will be 1/16 soft sticks in the 'cracked-rib' style.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Oct 9th, 2018 at 2:24pm
That's an interesting approach on the construction pb_guy.  Looking forward to seeing this as it goes.

Marlin

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:16pm

MKelly wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
AK - a suggestion:  if you're going to fly this one, move the rear motor peg forward to just aft of the cockpit and raise it up to just above the center of the fuselage.


I'm feeling a rock or hard place moment! I think I'm going to pass even tho I get what you are saying. Earlier you asked about the weight and I imagine the model is going to be heavier than desired, maybe too much for good flying. Also, the revised mount location is smack dab in the middle of the center of attention and I'm not sure I want to detract from the eye candy. I'll file this suggestion away for a future model where it may be better used. Thank you for the suggestion!



Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:49am
AK - You may want to add a turbulator strip half way between the leading edge and the main spar, helps with air flow.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 10th, 2018 at 8:27am
[/quote]
Also, the revised mount location is smack dab in the middle of the center of attention and I'm not sure I want to detract from the eye candy. I'll file this suggestion away for a future model where it may be better used. Thank you for the suggestion!
[/quote]

No worries - certainly understand not wanting to interrupt the flow of that nice fuselage.  Looking forward to seeing the Vale all covered and prettied up!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:24am
Great model, Alf...beautiful work on the in-filling...tail is a work of art.  She's your model...an wonderful artistic expression on a challenging subject.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:43am

Kerak wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:24am:
Great model, Alf...beautiful work on the in-filling...tail is a work of art.  She's your model...an wonderful artistic expression on a challenging subject.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]Neal


Thanks, Neal! When I'm admiring your Nate, I'm much aware of how yours looks like its made to fly whereas mine make nice table models.

On the subject of WW2, have you watched the TV show The Man In The High Castle? I'm hooked on it!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:44am

New Builder wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:49am:
AK - You may want to add a turbulator strip half way between the leading edge and the main spar, helps with air flow.Mike


Done! 1/32 stringer, not much weight and its all forward too.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 10th, 2018 at 11:15am

MKelly wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:50am:
AK that looks really cool.  Very nice woodwork on the fuselage and tail surfaces.  If you have a scale please post the weight of the bones.
Mike


Here's the boat anchor so far!

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 10th, 2018 at 11:30am
:) I certainly wouldn't worry about that weight, Alf...because the aesthetics of your model more than offset anything else.  She really is a honey.  As a matter of fact, I look at those bones and think that if it were seriously enlarged...you'd have the makings of a terrific scale rc ship!  Crank in some dihedral and presto...you could fly her on 2 or 3 channels!  So she's a "big-boned girl," so what...she's still a beauty!

If one builds for serious free flight...imo...there go all those great aesthetics.  It's tough to build for both flight and display...requires some real sacrifices.  To attain both is to be a master modeler...imo. ;)

Your model is a beauty...you should build it to YOUR satisfaction...as you are doing. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Ps...I might add, there is so much about you model that really is intriguing...like the wing spar, ribs, leading and trailing edges...great stuff, Alf.

The first time I saw your model...that upper wing has a similar shape to a German DFW B1 from WW1...very striking...moth-like.  Nice work, Alf. :)

No...haven't seen that program...will have to look into it. Thanks.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:03pm
Ok...ANNie...been workin' on covering the dreaded wing-root area...complicated by my working on an already joined fuselage and wing.  :o  It is very time consuming to do it this way...but the resultant product means..."ain't no gaps."  Look for the positive...;D ;D ;D 

Hey, the rest is a piece o' cake!

Covered the cowling, cockpit area, and wheel pants in a darker grey...attempting to offset the "bright" wood underneath.

"Progress is our most important product."

Neal

Ps...If you've never heard of or read about The Niihau Incident...look it up...check it out...great story.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:42pm
Neal, I understand the problem of the bones showing through the covering, and I am wondering if painting the structure before covering might make it less obtrusive. When I speak of painting, I mean watercolour paints, or sharpies, or felt markers. The weight of those colors would be minimal. I use sharpies to colour tires and struts, etc. with negligible weight gain.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:13pm
Good approach Ian...thanks for the thought.  I considered that approach...but decided that if I was going to paint the wood...might as well paint the tissue...six of one, half dozen of the other...comes out the same.  I too have done the "sharpie trick."  Sharpie" and dope definitely don't like each other.  So there are pros and cons.

Thanks again for the ideas, Ian.  ANNie's gonna be a war-weary "haggard ol' girl" by time things are done with, splotches, dents, and stains.   This is supposed to be a WAR BIRD! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:14pm
Great builds everyone!!  This cookup looks like fun.  I'm going to join in and build a Taylorcraft BC-65.  The plans are for a 20 inch span and I will scale it down to 13 inches as a Peanut.  This will be my first high wing plane  :)
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:19pm
Welcome, Brad!  Good to have you along....

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:18pm
Great Brad! And another peanut!
The progress may slow on the Bonanza for awhile. Life has again intervened. But this is the progress on the wing. I built in 3/32 washout at the tip, using 3/32, 1/16 and 1/32 shims where appropriate. One booboo placed an upper rib stick incorrectly, but it was easy to fix.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:32am

Quote:
I suspect he makes it look easier than the process really is for the neophyte

Neal - A bit late on this but, when Alfredo showed his triplane with foam turtle deck I tried it and failed. Couldn't decide what was wrong until now, he dropped a bit of a hint that diluted white glue to seal the foam was the answer. Back to the trials.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:34am

Quote:
Progress is our most important product.

Some of us are old enough to remember this - thanks GE.
mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:13pm
ANNie now has skin...covered, nose to tail.  Time for some manner of camo...green splotches topside.  I think we've rounded third.... :D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 12th, 2018 at 12:16am
Looking very good!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Oct 12th, 2018 at 3:26pm

New Builder wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:32am:

Quote:
I suspect he makes it look easier than the process really is for the neophyte

Neal - A bit late on this but, when Alfredo showed his triplane with foam turtle deck I tried it and failed. Couldn't decide what was wrong until now, he dropped a bit of a hint that diluted white glue to seal the foam was the answer. Back to the trials.
Mike


Enjoying all builds!
white glue must be diluted to "almost milk" condition, let the ( already 150sanded) foam to absorb a generous amount and then apply the "pre wet" tissue section" before last diluted white glue layer dries off ( so inmediatly). Then , is important to go watching some tv, have dinner, go to sleep and dont even look the ongoing drying process!
Its important to let it dry naturally [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I also wd like to take a look to the "atemps" that would be good to improve my advice.

I probably make it look easier than it really is...but its really quick once u get the trick at least.

Well , keep me informed!

any progress on that F6F?

wd enjoy to receive pics and comments in my watsapp 59898907134

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Oct 12th, 2018 at 3:33pm
Airbrush wd be great for that Ki 30 camo [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:20pm
Airbrush is the plan, Alfredo...but had to cut the grass today...got a 1/2 acre of the stuff...not the smokin' kind.  This yard is kickin' my butt nowadays.  Soon will be covered in snoooowwwww.  Already is up on the mountain.

Also...to activate my airbrush...I gotta clean the work bench...this process gets more involved all the time.  Anything that I have to get off my pratt...is involved...and requires planning. ;D ;D ;D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:37pm
Wow 1/2 acre ... nice flying field! (good side hehe)
May be u should consider to have some sheeps, they do a great job cutting grass!
Cant figure the snow, we dont have snow here, some 20 / 25 frosts in winter, but thats only in the morning.
Now is springtime and weather is "mixed", sometimes is warm enough to go swimming in the lake, sometimes gets cold and rainy with winds comming from argentina.
Btw , do you have some video showing ki-27 in flight?
I really liked that one!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 12th, 2018 at 8:28pm
Got some time to put in an hour here and there on the Bonanza. Wing glued (Gorilla Carpenter glue) and drying. I'll add some more gussets when it is dry. One pic is a close-up of the point where the spar is glued to the box. I added two pieces of 3/32 square to the front and back of the spar to increase the glued area.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:24pm
Nice looking wing!  Great job!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 13th, 2018 at 8:54am
Some of these old plans have articles that describe how to build the models. I saw a reference that I don't understand, maybe one of us does.

In the description of building the fuselage, this Aeromodeller article from 1944 says to cut out the formers from 1/16 sheet and then says to cut out the keels from "1/16 sheet substitute". What is that? My guess is that it is something sturdier than balsa sheet but what could that be?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 13th, 2018 at 9:17am
AK, In 1944, given the balsa rationing, it could be anything from Bristol board to spruce.

I'm loving watching this- I have a rare day when I don't HAVE to be anywhere and coffee. I'm going to try to bring this TBM-3 that's cluttering up my clutter on home. Maybe even work on the BOK-5 a little while I'm in peanut mode!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:36pm
Well...that mighty complicated and involved camouflage pattern has been airbrushed onto ANNie...awesome, I know.  ::)

Managed a propeller as well...big stuff.

Of interest...Japanese used a self-manufactured version of the Lewis machinegun in the rear cockpit...single and sometimes double.  I saw an interview with Japanese Naval Ace Minoru Honda in which he asserted that the 7.7mm machine gun was practically "worthless in aerial combat," couldn't cause enough damage to bring anything down.  He did preface his comments by confessing that he was a notoriously poor marksman...requiring point-blank range to be effective.  ;D  I was somewhat surprised the Japanese didn't incorporate a belt-fed type weapon.

My plan is to "pull" a canopy for ANNie...to include the extreme aft gunner's area...that way, I can dispense with building a model Type 92 machinegun.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Back to the football games...Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:36pm
Well, one down- Yes, I finished one! The model came out almost precisely at 1/48 scale (The TBM-3 was a BIG airplane) so I was able to cheat a little and use decals from Techmd. Good thing, because I can't cut tissue that close and I'm not computer graphics savvy enough to print it.

AUW as pictured san rubber is 10.63g. It will probably need a scosche of nose weight. One less coat of dope & I might have hit my mark.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm
Some more...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 13th, 2018 at 3:10pm
Great job, Craig!  If you'd like...I'll show you how to at least double your model's weight during a build.  ;D ;D ;D  Start with a wire landing gear and wheel pants...that'll do it.

She's a beauty, Craig.  You're a winner, winner, winner.  Congrats!!!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 13th, 2018 at 4:28pm
Looks great Craig!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] That is a great weight, especially with the details you have added which make it really pop!
Finished wing bones of the Bonanza weigh in at 2.38g.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 13th, 2018 at 5:06pm
Craig and Neal, what nifty work! All of this WW2 interest has me looking there for my next project. Stinson now on backburner.

10 grams! Heck, one of my wheel pants weighs that much! I really gotta concentrate on how you guys are doing things.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 13th, 2018 at 7:52pm
Light weight models and the secrets of life and death...they're interconnected for certain.  ;D ;D ;D

Great wing, Ian.  Had a Bonanza model when I was a kid...was a devil to get the motor started (CL)! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Best of fortune with your Bonanza.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 13th, 2018 at 8:32pm
I vaguely remember a Bonanza all sheet model when I was 4 or 5 years old. Was inked either blue or red, probably less than 12" W/S. I have the impression that flight was kind of like a brick. I did the tail feathers today. I soaked the ends of some 1/16 strips in boiling water for a while and bent them around styrofoam formers for the upcoming fuselage construction. For the formers, I glued 2 pieces of ~3/32 styrofoam sheet together and glued a copy of the fuselage side view to it, then sliced it to the correct shape. Pinned to a board, and by the the balsa sticks were quite easy to bend. I used some scrap 3/32 sticks and pins to hold the shape until tomorrow.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 14th, 2018 at 8:52am
Craig and Neal - Outstanding work and flawless covering work. All the small details really bring these models to life. Great work as usual.

pb_buy - Very nice work on your wing. I've noticed what appears to be a version of the cracked rib design but gives the leading edge a bit more airfoil shape. I'm putting that design method in my notebook.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Oct 14th, 2018 at 9:28am
Craig, Great TBM-3.  I love the slots.  Never seen anyone add slots to an Avenger or any tissue model, really, other than maybe airbrushing in a shadow.

Marlin

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 14th, 2018 at 10:31am
Tissue finished, ready for the spray booth! Used a Peck light grey that did well when 'wet', although I found the smaller areas were just as easy to do dry. One coat of thinned EZDope.

I thought I had found a pearl white acrylic that I could use but I tested a little of it and found it to be too "neon". I'll look for a gloss light grey and let it go at that.

Wing, struts, wheel pants all go on after the paint.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 14th, 2018 at 2:53pm
I'm going to start hacking out parts for my Ace Whitman build- The North American P-64. I'm leaning towards doing it as a Peruvian NA-50, because that's where they were accepted as a fighter.

Question for you guys- While my inclinations are to build it straight up from the plan, because that's how I see the spirit of this cookoff, I know it's gonna need a lot more dihedral before my limited skills will make it fly. What would you guys do?
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 14th, 2018 at 3:50pm
Alf...that model of yours is just beautiful...great workmanship.  Really sweet!

Craig...I went with the old axiom of wingtips level with the bottom of the canopy on a mid wing configuration...on Annie, that is.  After I'd "cranked" it in...looked kind of excessive to me...but the sight of it has "taken hold."  ;D  My advice...give it what you can accept...then add a "scosche" more.  Is that a real word?  I've always been amazed at those folk that can fly a model with practically no dihedral at all!  Check out the Mike Stewart website.

Looking forward to your NA P-64 build, Craig! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 14th, 2018 at 5:21pm
Y'all are making great progress...I'm going to have to get it in gear.  Been busy transferring plans to the new site.  Love the Avenger and Annie!  The wing for the Bonanza looks fantastic.  Alfa has the smooth looks on Magni Vale down perfect.  Well done fellas! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 14th, 2018 at 6:43pm
I've enjoyed watching Neal put together his Japanese duo, so much so that I'm looking at continuing in the cook-up with these two prototype antagonists!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 14th, 2018 at 7:52pm
That's great, Alf!  Lots of plans and color schemes to choose from.  Always found it interesting that a mid-30's design that has been so disparaged by aviation "writers" has continued to be so oft-times modeled...hmmmm.  I promise to TRY not to get into the politics of your subject.  ;)

Chosen a plan and scale yet?  Whitman has a fairly "involved" plan...but there are many out there.  Maybe 20 years ago or so  ::) I constructed a Buffalo from my own plan...been searching for a photo of it but can't locate...was 22"ws, done up in pre-war Navy colors...blue cowling and chrome yellow wings...was a "looker."

One thing to keep in mind as you build...a reminder...F2A is very much like a model of a Gee Bee R1...barrel fuselage...short and stubby.  So...with a mind to flying...got to construct that fuselage and empennage lightly.  Consider dispensing with the LG and tail wheel.

You do such an artistic job with your builds Alf...I'm happy to see Brewster "rides again!" [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  I'm delighted...no pressure here.  :D

Neal

PS....Oh...and a Wildcat too.  Little 'Cat has a lot of wing area...smaller fuselage...good flyer.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 14th, 2018 at 9:05pm
Two great choices Alfa...I look forward to seeing which one you decide to build first.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 14th, 2018 at 9:16pm

Craig 3 wrote on Oct 14th, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Question for you guys- While my inclinations are to build it straight up from the plan, because that's how I see the spirit of this cookoff, I know it's gonna need a lot more dihedral before my limited skills will make it fly. What would you guys do?


Craig,
I'd set the dihedral so the wingtips are somewhere between the thrustline and the bottom of the canopy.  My Navion has the wingtips just below the thrustline, and it flies very erratically in even very slightly dirty air.  The Wedell-Williams tips are just above the thrustline, and it flies OK but wanders left and right as the gusts hit it (I think the weight of the landing gear helps stabilize it a bit).  The T-28's wingtips are about even with the bottom of the canopy, and it flies rock-steady.

Look forward to seeing the P-64 come together.

Cheers,

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 15th, 2018 at 9:27am
Alf - Your tissue talents are truly on display, very nice work. Look forward to your color work, should be just as nice as always.

Craig - Looking forward to your Whitman build. They build well but have a few nuances to watch for like the wing location and the methodology, cost me three stringers on the bottom to get the wing in.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 15th, 2018 at 9:31am
F6F Hellcat

Things were moving along very nicely until yesterday, a little lack of attention and a new wing starting today. This is the best thing that could happen. My tissue was refusing to shrink equally and had long span-wise wrinkles. Think I'm going to use a different design on the new wing. All the parts are done and as soon as the wing is done and tissued, assembly starts along with the canopy plug.
Mike

PS
Neal - I have perfected Alfredo's foam and tissue methodology. The use of dilute white glue was the key. I used blue foam since I seem to have trashed my supply of white foam. After the glue seal, I used 30-70 Eze dope and slightly damp tissue and it went on very well. Smoothed out the wrinkles with a brush and a little more Eze dope and let it dry. Sands with 400 grit to a smooth finish ready for color.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 15th, 2018 at 11:12am

New Builder wrote on Oct 15th, 2018 at 9:31am:
My tissue was refusing to shrink equally and had long span-wise wrinkles.


I can definitely feel your pain! Depending on type of tissue and the sturdiness of the wing, I may not try to do the entire wing at once unless its the flat bottom. Individual rib panels take longer but for me the method is much easier to control.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 15th, 2018 at 11:42am
Mike...better three stringers...than three fingers.  ;) ;D ;D

Have you ever tried wet tissue application?  I know about grain direction and all of that (sometimes it's really difficult to determine grain direction...esp. on the cheap tissue I use  :D), but for some reason, whenever I apply tissue using the wet method...I don't seem to run into those wrinkle issues as often as I do using the dry method.  Just a suggestion.

My wet method is simple...lay out a couple of layers of paper towels...place tissue on them.  Apply glustick to frame...now back to the tissue...spritz it thoroughly...then with more paper towel, gently damp up the moisture.  Now apply tissue to frame and gently use fingertips on the edges to "pull" the tissue moderately "tight."  Never touch the inner areas of tissue...make certain its got good adhesion on the edges.  Allow to dry...which is quite rapid.  All of this has been one continuous procedure...once started there are no pauses to contemplate one's navel.  ;)  I only use domestic stuff and have NEVER had the tissue "fall apart" during the process.

This EZedope stuff...I've never used.  I have tried other alternatives...like floor polish...and when I compare the two results (what I've read about EZEdope), they seem similar.  Has a tendency to "puddle," and takes much longer than standard dope to cure...like several days!  But...it will cure eventually...takes too long for my lack of patience (It's been said that I don't suffer fools...and I'm generally the only fool in the room.  8-)).

Anyway Mike...just some suggestions you might try...or not.  I go back and forth between wet and dry...determined by how lazy I'm feeling...a general principle that applies to everything in my life nowadays.  :D

Here are my peanut Buffalo and Wildcat...not prototypes.  Buffalo canopy is clouded with age...as am I. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

ANNie is ready for some sort of canopy...guess I'm going to be compelled to carve a plug...oh dread. :-?

Neal


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Oct 15th, 2018 at 12:48pm
My Taylorcraft is coming along.  I'm making an effort to keep weight down.  It's going well except I completely crumpled a fuselage side while sanding  >:(  I'm worried it's too fragile, but I'm going to fight all urges to strengthen and re-enforce the structure except when absolutely necessary.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 15th, 2018 at 1:08pm
Looking good, Brad. 

I used to have a friend in my college days who owned a Taylorcraft...he was a bush-pilot from Alaska.  We used to go out flying after classes...very rudimentary...but lots of fun. Fabric-covered!  :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 15th, 2018 at 1:58pm
Looking good indeed Brad. Nice recovery from the damaged fuse side and progressing really well.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 15th, 2018 at 2:09pm
F6F Hellcat
New wing framed up and off the board. I knew I wanted to use the semi-cracked rib method someday but did not know it would be today. Profile the ribs, leading edge and trailing edge and I'm back to where I was this morning.

Alf - I know I should be a bit more conservative with my covering work and maybe three bays at a time next time. The original wing was very delicate and even with securing it down it still warped into a nice curve. The other side pulled it down but was really rough, kinda glad it caught on the edge of my desk.

Neal - With your wet technique and Alf's suggestion, I should be a much better at covering. I'm going to give your wet method a go on the fuselage, it has some nice curves and the wet tissue should conform better than the dry stuff. The new wing is much sturdier than its predecessor.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm
Great progress on the Hellcat...I love building cracked rib wings.  You can add a lot of strength without a lot of weight by adding angle braces (1/16"sq) from root T.E. to next bay top rib as it joins the spar and repeating out a few bays for added strength.

As for the Taylorcraft...it's amazing how much the tissue adds to the strength of the fuselage.  The tissue is really amazing stuff!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 15th, 2018 at 9:55pm
Everyone is doing a great job. There is a lot of action going on. Incredible that there are second builds already!
I made a wing saddle for the Bonanza and started the 3-D part of the fuselage tonight. Has to dry overnight before I can do any more. I moved the rear peg forward one bay. Perhaps I should have moved it 2?
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 16th, 2018 at 6:49am
Wow- I leave for one day and look at what I've missed! This getting fun!
Got a good start on the P64/68/ NA 50 fuselage box. I build the sides stacked with wax paper coupons at the glue joints- that seems to work better with my eyes for getting them symmetrical. I glued the tailpost and wrapped it with tape, laid the "V" on the plan with a suitable spread, blocked it square, and went to the day job. When my toil was done, it was just a matter of pinning the tail post to the board and torturing it over the precut matched crosspieces while using the 1-2-3 blocks to hold it square and in place.

Mike K - You're almost assuredly right about the TBM being over-propped- at least it'll be easy to trim back!

I'l take the suggestions you and Neal have offered on dihedral- this one may fly.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 16th, 2018 at 8:29am

Quote:
You can add a lot of strength without a lot of weight by adding angle braces (1/16"sq) from root T.E. to next bay top rib as it joins the spar and repeating out a few bays for added strength

Tom - Thanks for the great tip and I will add it to the wing. It has a lot of torsional springiness and feels very weak, this should fix that and probably help with the covering. Thanks again and I'm beginning to like the cracked rib method more and more and after I read your comment, I decided to add the bottom of the ribs to keep with the plan of symmetrical airfoil, it will look much more like it was intended.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 16th, 2018 at 2:19pm
Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls.  Announcing the conclusion of my Ace Whitman-Mitsubishi Ki-30 Nagoya (ANNie) build...weighs in at 42.76g (without those hardwood wheels...a ton more with)...22"ws.  I'm exhausted by the effort...going to forgo whatever other details I might have added.    Motor is two loops of 3/32" rubber...prop is 8"dia.  Thank You all.

That helmet in the bottom photo is certifiable property of The Emperor of Japan, liberated by myself in sunny SEA (Southeast Asia), 1968, a souvenir in war from the wrong war.  It's been waiting for this moment in time...and now it has arrived.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 16th, 2018 at 5:47pm
Outstanding!!!!  You're camo turned out very nice!   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 16th, 2018 at 8:24pm
The Vale is finished as well. Now on to the Wildcat prototype!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 16th, 2018 at 8:39pm
Me thinks you've outdone yourself this time, Alf...absolutely beautiful...art-deco!...Italian style!  I once read that Italian aircraft were too beautiful for war...that they were literal works of art.  You've created a model in that very spirit!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 16th, 2018 at 10:22pm
Neal and AK - Looking good! Both are nice finishes.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 17th, 2018 at 5:53am
Neal, AK- I'm with Ian. You guys just keep raising the bar! These builds are nothing short of inspirational!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 17th, 2018 at 7:51am
Thanks much to everyone! I'll say one thing...the camera is absolutely merciless when it comes to showing things the naked eye either doesn't see or doesn't want to see!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 17th, 2018 at 9:01am
AK, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself - the Vale looks great!  I've saved off the plans you linked with the idea of doing one about 24" span for FAC Golden Age Monoplane.  So many great airplanes, so little time...

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 17th, 2018 at 9:23am
Box & formers done. This was easier than my last Whitman build. I believe the wing mounting will be a bit less fiddly too.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 17th, 2018 at 1:17pm
I am not happy with the fuselage for the Bonanza. The designer added curves where there were none, and it didn't go well when putting in crossmembers. You can see where I added gussets to repair some breaks. I am going to redo the fuselage with just a few invisible changes that will make it much easier. At the same time, I will also move the rear motor peg one more bay forward. The only part I will salvage will be the wing saddles. The discarded fuselage main structure weighed in at 1.5 g as seen.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Oct 17th, 2018 at 4:11pm
Looking great guys!
Hope all are well. I am in crazy season so 12 hr days 6 days a week. weeee bit tiered. Ill post some pics soon on my build.
Shipwreck

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 17th, 2018 at 4:31pm
WoW...you guys are really knocking out these builds fast and fantastic. 

AK..the Vale looks great!  I do like the lines of this bird.

Ok fellas you're really putting the pressure on me to get the Jack started.  I've printed out the plans so now to tape the tiles together and start clearing the building board.   Just need to finish the spinner for the Roland CII and we're moving on!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Oct 18th, 2018 at 1:01pm
I got the landing gear worked out and installed last night.  I won't be posting any photos looking down the middle of the fuselage..... it's wonky!!! >:(  I'm not going to worry about it and will press on.  Total weight under 4 grams for base elements (my scale only shows whole grams).
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 18th, 2018 at 11:43pm
Looks like a nice light flyer Brad.
I rebuilt the Bonanza fuselage with straighter lines. I cracked and glued the longerons rather than bending them, and I cracked the sides for the forward and rear bends. Then I added small gussets at the breaks. I strengthened the grip area behind the wing for hand launches with an additional cross member and some parallel bottom longerons. I am back to the point where I discarded the original fuselage, and with the same weight of 1.4 g. Now to add superstructure, nose stringers and noseblock.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 19th, 2018 at 11:43am
Tom...what's the conclusion date for the Fall 2018 Cookup?

If possible friends...it would be great to get a reassessment of who's intending to build what in future for this Cookup...primarily because I for one would NOT want to step on anyone's toes by building a subject that someone else had in mind.  We've got just a couple of (thousand...1.5k) posts so far...and it would be easier to reassess things than reading all the previous posts! :o

Thanks....Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 19th, 2018 at 2:38pm
Neal- If I manage to squeeze another one out before we start the next cookup, it'll be a Joe Ott "Ott-O-Former" Lockheed P-38. I'd kind like to do one of the "ersatz balsa" models, and I have a kit that's too tatty to be collectible.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 19th, 2018 at 10:03pm
I didn't set a cut off date.  I usually leave it open ended so we keep it fun and no pressure.  I've been working on transferring plans and  I've kinda fallen into a builders funk.  So I'll wait on some new inspiration to get myself back in the building mood...  :( :-? :-[

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 20th, 2018 at 9:30am
The NA-50 "Torito" fuselage is all stringered out, and cowling roughed in. This plan has a LOT of paper templates- the fuselage pretty much from the wing root forward, and the "ring" part of the cowling, along with the canopy framing, are all to be made of bond paper, and in the case of the fuselage, there's nothing much there to support it. It may get made of balsa, at least on the fuselage part. The cowling ring, instead of being paper, is laminated from one layer of 1/32" 4# and one of 1/64".

As an aside, lets do a Cleveland cookup sometime!  :D :D :D
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 20th, 2018 at 10:53am
Builds are all lookin' good...nice job, gentlemen!

Found this photo of your subject, Craig...I like the way the pilot is flying along with canopy open and his service cap perched atop his head...sunglasses...pretty dapper...obviously posing for a pic to send home to "the folks."  Must not be much turbulence inside...or at least he's praying for such just long enough to get the photo taken.  Then...snap goes the canopy. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Well...lots of nice Ott-Whitman material still to be explored...but kind of hoping to see some other builders still to be involved.... 

In the meantime...I've decided to venture forth with another peanut scale...an obscure subject, in keeping with my IJAAF binge of late...a Kawasaki KDA-5 Type 92 Model 1 (biplane).  Something of an odd little bird, 1930 vintage...viewed a Japanese propaganda film of NATEs dog-fighting these little Kawasaki's (31'ws...even smaller than NATE!)...supposed to be Chinese flown. ;)  Very maneuverable!  Anyway...looking for something with flat sides...simple wings, no fillets, no canopies to pull...this fills the bill.

Have you ever wondered about the "Type" number assigned to Japanese aircraft?  In this instance...the "92" is representative of the year since the advent of Japan's First Emperor...2,592...i.e., 1932.  So there could conceivably be more than one "Type 92" aircraft...contracts allotted to the year 1932 (2592).  Confusing?  :D  Just to clarify things....

May take a few days to get going on the build.  Meanwhile...you all keep pushing on...no need to wait for me.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Neal


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 20th, 2018 at 10:56am
That's a cool choice, Neal- My first thought was "Is there a Curtiss Conquerer hiding under that cowling?" I see it's a BMW VI (or Kawasaki Ha9) but the front end reminds me of my stalled Berliner-Joyce build.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 20th, 2018 at 11:08am
Craig...very sharp observation...was of the same time period!  I wonder if there was a bit of industrial espionage that went on?  Actually was designed by a German...Dr. Richard Vogt of Fokker/Blohm und Voss renown....

My dimer Curtiss Falcon Mailplane is of similar configuration.  KDA 5 is very similar to Curtiss fighters of the period...as well as the He51 on the German side of things.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 20th, 2018 at 11:42am
Love the non-routine builds!!

The Wildcat prototype is taking shape. The plan had the fuselage "built in the air", not a technique I'm comfortable with, so I used the tried and true keel method. I use two crutches to fend off the banana woes. Trying to keep this as light as I can.

Once I get a little more bracing on, I'll hollow out the formers, etc. Wing attachment a little iffy still. The plan has the spars going thru the fuselage, only problem with that is that they occupy the same space as the rubber motor!! Not sure what the designer had in mind on that one.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:11pm
I need some advise.

For my peanut Taylorcraft, which prop should I start with?  I am purposely not "over building" this plane.  I am committed to flying it!!!  Also, suggestions on motor/rubber would be great
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:22pm
Unless I've missed my mark, Alf...those do NOT look like Grumman wings, etc...wrong shape...more like a Buffalo!  ;D  I wonder how that happened?

Ever read the story of Sakai creeping up on what he thought was a Wildcat off Guadalcanal?  Dusk...thought he had a "sitter," Grumman wingtips...Grumman tail...oh boy! ::)  Too late, he'd gotten the manufacturer correct...but not the type...it was an Avenger!  Rear gunner creased Sakai's head with a .50cal. round...destroyed the Zero's canopy and instruments...Sakai survived by the grace of Buddha...the rest is history.

Speaking of "industrial espionage," how about the Navy supplying Grumman with all pertinent data concerning Brewster's Buffalo...before the first rivet had even been installed on the prototype F4F?  Nice to know your target specs while your competition waits for you to catch up...and then...Grumman still failed!  Cat overheated and engine seized during competition fly-off...never made it back to the strip!  Oh...I wasn't going to do this.... :D

The Navy continued paying for the development of the Wildcat over the next two years, in spite of Grumman's failure in the competition.  Does anyone believe that "favor" would have been extended to Brewster had the roles been reversed?  Just conjecture.  Contracting fact was that the Navy had "acquired ownership" of both designs...could tell Brewster what NOT to do...and Grumman...to go ahead.  So what was the competition about anyway...satisfying Congress...legitimacy.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:31pm
Brad...I'm no expert...but a single loop of 1/8" rubber...double the length of the fuselage is my guess...and for a prop...why not try them all...that's not unreasonable?  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:42pm

Kerak wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Unless I've missed my mark, Alf...those do NOT look like Grumman wings, etc...wrong shape...more like a Buffalo!  ;D  I wonder how that happened?


No, you are right, those are not the typical F4F wings. I'm doing the prototype which had a shorter wingspan and rounded wing tips. In fact, the whole layout was wrong as evidenced by the prototype's inability to compete with the Buffalo. Once Grumman redid the configuration, however, it was no contest.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:53pm
Nice work, Alf...pay me no mind...I'm still grinding an old axe.  Your model subject is superb...unique.

Ever look to see what the XF4F-1 looked like?  If I recall...was a proposed upgrade of the F3F biplane.  Apparently Grumman didn't "understand" the meaning of "all-metal carrier-based monoplane fighter."

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Oct 20th, 2018 at 5:08pm
The prototype's wing reminds me of an unbent Corsair wing with an extra bit of leading-edge sweepback.

Marlin

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 20th, 2018 at 5:14pm

Kerak wrote on Oct 20th, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Ever look to see what the XF4F-1 looked like?  If I recall...was a proposed upgrade of the F3F biplane.  Apparently Grumman didn't "understand" the meaning of "all-metal carrier-based monoplane fighter."Neal


The changes in this for the initial XF4F-2 prototype are pretty obvious.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 21st, 2018 at 10:37am
Bits and pieces tacked together. Thinking about moving motor peg forward to next former to minimize aft weight.

Stringers are medium soft 1/32, have only busted a few so far!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 21st, 2018 at 10:56am
Lookin' spiffy, Alf!  Suggestion...might consider making that root wing rib from 1/16" sheet...shrinking tissue can really pull that rib inward during the process....  Just a suggestion.  Looks like you're ready to cover things... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

There's a reason the XF4F-2 looks like an F2A.  ;)

More on my proposed Kawasaki (not a dirt bike)....

The Kawasaki Type 92 Fighter was a German-designed biplane that saw some service during the fighting in Manchuria in 1933.
The aircraft was first developed as the Kawasaki KDA-5, one of a number of aircraft designed for Kawasaki by Dr Richard Vogt, a German engineer who had previously worked for Fokker, and who went on to be the main designer for Blohm und Voss. The KDA-5 was an equal span biplane, with a metal framework and fabric covering. The BMW VI inline 'V' engine gave the aircraft its characteristic 'forehead', with the two rows of cylinders reflected in the engine cowling. The undercarriage was fixed, with no cowling.
Five prototype KDA-5s were built, with the first making its maiden flight in 1930. They were followed by 180 Kawasaki Army Type 92 Model 1 Fighters, which had a modified fin and rudder. The Army Type 92 Model 2 with a stronger structure followed, with 200 being built, for a total of 385 aircraft. The Type 92 entered service just too late to take part in the 'Shanghai Incident' of 1932, but saw some action during the fighting in Manchuria in 1933.
Engine: BMW VI inline 'V'
Power: 630-hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 32ft 4in
Maximum Take-off Weight: 3,968lb
Max Speed: 199mph
Climb rate: 4 minutes to 9,845ft
Armament: Two fixed forward firing 7.7mm machine guns
KDA-5
Five prototypes.
Type 92 Model 1 Fighter
Initial production variant with changed fin and rudder and faired headrest, 180 built.
Type 92 Model 2 Fighter
Improved version with structural strengthing and more powerful ( kW/750 hp) BMW VII engine, 200 built.


Two basic plans exist...both are general configurations...leaving it up to the modeler to add "accuracy" to the build.  That's fine.  I'm looking for simplicity.  I've got some balsa stripwood that's so fragile (how fragile is it?) that it tries to break whenever I look at it!  ;D ;D ;D  Gonna try to "lighten my load" (somewhere around Winslow Az) this time around. :D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 21st, 2018 at 11:42am
Got the sheathing done, all to replace the paper called for in the plan. I started with 1/32" light stuff & sanded it to about half thickness- I just wasn't happy with the bond paper canopy in the Ace Whitman Defiant build. Still to be determined is how to do the canopy.

As pictured, 6.55g. I figure it was going to need nose weight anyway.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 21st, 2018 at 12:19pm
Good idea, Neal. And that will give me more surface to attach the tissue to.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 21st, 2018 at 12:24pm
Beautiful sheeting!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 21st, 2018 at 12:28pm
Thanks! This model has a chance to look pretty "scale,"- I know I added a little weight but hey, sometimes you just have to! There's really no framing underneath it- it just lands on the formers fore and aft, and one stringer on the cockpit sides. I added a 1/32 stringer on the top of the flat panel at the side of the cockpit to stiffen it a little.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 21st, 2018 at 1:59pm
That is some really nice woodwork, Craig...love those fuselage gunports...great touch!

I've decided to go with the Dallaire Kawasaki plan...kind of in honor of the Dallaire brothers, Joe and Frank...great modeling pioneers...established and operated Dallaire Model Aircraft Company from 1935 until finally closing shop in 1990.  I'd say they were competitors of Joe Ott/Ace Whitman. ;D  But...this is a peanut build...and all's fair in model airplane cookups.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 22nd, 2018 at 8:32am
Everybody is doing absolutely great work. I seem to be falling behind on posting and paying attention mostly due to not being online everyday, but never the less, superior work all around.

F6F Hellcat
Got the majority of the tissue on the fuselage but needed to leave the opening in the bottom to get the wing in and near the tail to get a little room for the horizontal stabilizer. The big opening in the bottom will be filled with foam and tissue and the opening near the tail will be tissued after the horizontal stab is installed. Not looking forward to cutting the wing up to put in the dihedral.  The cut is to be after the second rib on both sides. Excel blade company makes a small #15 saw blade without a reinforcing back that should work fine, pictures soon.
Mike

PS
Tom - thank you for the suggestion of adding diagonal supports to the rib bays. Added great strength and rigidity.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Oct 22nd, 2018 at 1:38pm
Thanks for posting the photo of the diagonal wing bracing.  Now that I see it, I'll use it in future builds.

I should have used it on my Taylorcraft!!!  Both wings warped badly >:(  I new they were weak.  I did manage to fix them by misting and holding them flat as they dried.  You can even see that the tightening created a 'scalop' on the TE.  Note to self = use a bit stronger wood for LE/TE and spars.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 22nd, 2018 at 2:52pm
Brad, Diagonal bracing is a great way to stiffen up a light wing.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 22nd, 2018 at 5:45pm
When you are working with a light structure, it helps to pre-stretch/pre-shrink the tissue on a frame before applying to the structure. It eliminates a lot of warps, but you have to take care not to leave wrinkles when you cover with it. I have a large sheet of heavy cardboard that I use for a frame. It will take a full sheet of tissue. For smaller pieces, I cut holes in my cardboard to about the right size before shrinking so as not to waste too much tissue.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 9:26am
F6F Hellcat
Nothing here that a good sharp blade can't solve. Some sanding to the correct angle, couple of reinforcing pads on the spar and a couple of fillets on the smaller parts, glue in the dihedral and off to covering.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 12:46pm
Life has ambushed me here for the time being...but managed to get in some simple building on my Kawasaki...all 1/16" stuff...no jig setup...just stick it together and eyeball it...like when I was a kid.  "Ya'll kin see it when it ain't straight."  ;)

Found this photo of an Avenger, Craig...slightly modified.  No details concerning the outcome of the obvious changes.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 1:09pm
Fuselage work seems to slow me down. Still going at it while doing other things. Starting to add stringers.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 7:39pm
Almost there! Lots of tissue issues, probably has something to do with the flimsy 1/32 stringers being pulled one way or another. Just a few remaining details and touch-ups.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 7:45pm
Really sweet, Alf...hope that engine doesn't overheat.  ;)  Still looks remarkably...coincidentally, like an F2A.  ;D

Ever seen a video of an F4F landing on a carrier deck...hard on one wheel?  Goes squirrel in a hurry!  Whoa!

She's a beaut!

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 7:55pm

Kerak wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 7:45pm:
Still looks remarkably...coincidentally, like an F2A. 


The plan designer, H K Weiss, did the Brewster prototype as well. They are so much alike that his plan directions are the same for both. I've got a really nifty project waiting in the wings, and I think I'll skip the Buffalo. Only have a 3 view to work from but should not be a big deal.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 8:43pm
I can understand your desire to build "something different"...and not the same thing.  ;)

Years ago when I was researching the F2A...read some really interesting comments by some outstanding Navy and Marine fighter pilots.  Gregory Boyington was asked his opinion of the Buffalo and responded with, "Great airplane...absolutely outstanding until the Navy ruined it."  I'm certain the interviewer wasn't expecting that response.  Another was an ace (can't recall his name now) who'd survived being shot down by Zeros off Guadalcanal....while flying a Wildcat...got back to shore and friendly hands.  His comment jumped out at me, "They'd have never gotten me if I'd been flying my Buffalo."  Of course both pilots were referring to the F2A-2.  Someone out there thought quite highly of Brewster's little fighter.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Anything you build will be welcome here, Alf...I'm sure it will be an outstanding project.

And I DO like your Wildcat-Buffalo.  ;D ;D ;D [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Hey...did you know that both the Buffalo and Wildcat had hand-cranked landing gear?  Story goes that in the case that the gear wouldn't go down...pilots carried big mechanical cutters.  Of course...that's a good story.  :D  If you go to Youtube...Kermie flies a Wildcat and you can watch him "crank" the gear up and down.  ;D

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 9:49pm
Wildcat is looking really good AK.  I especially like the headrest - nice detail!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:33am

Quote:
Ya'll kin see it when it ain't straight

Neal - I like the boat builders mantra "if looks fair then it is fair, can't see both sides at the same time". Still looks good to me, great progress as usual.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:35am
AK - Nice looking tissue work and the markings are great as well. I admire your ability to handle the smallest of pieces on that plane. Great work.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:41am

Quote:
Note to self = use a bit stronger wood for LE/TE and spars

Brad - I've increased my leading and trailing edges just because of the same result you got, doesn't take a lot of increase a bit stiffer wood helps too. Preshrinking works well but my tissue skills are not up to putting on preshrunk tissue without many wrinkles, but soon.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 24th, 2018 at 10:45am

New Builder wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:35am:
AK - Nice looking tissue work and the markings are great as well.


Thanks, Mike! Usually I try to fix little wrinkles but this time went with it since the errors were relatively small. I covered the wing in one piece (damp Esaki) and got some wrinkling along the leading edge that reshrinks didn't fix. Probably could have avoided this if I had covered the wing panels in pieces. Too much work!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 24th, 2018 at 4:31pm
Well boys, once someone has pointed out the direction to the New World...there remains the journey to make...such is the adventure of wrinkle-free tissue installation.  You may know the way, but sometimes there's going to be glitches (wrinkles).

Had an untimely death in the family here (when is it ever timely?), so my modeling is progressing at a crawl....  This too shall pass...in its own time.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 24th, 2018 at 6:52pm
Trying something new (to me). I just can't do a bond paper canopy that doesn't let the rest of the aircraft down. Here, I used rattan fine chair cane. I boiled it, then formed the "hoops" in a male/female press and dried them. They've got a couple days on them and seem to be holding their shape pretty well. A bit heavier than balsa, but I hope I can make it up by using light cellophane for glazing.

A little info on this particular obscure airplane... The North American NA-50 was developed by North American Aviation as a simple single seat, low-wing, single engine fighter for export. The design was developed from the NA-16/BT-9 basic training aircraft of 1935. The NA-16 evolved into a series of aircraft that were some of the most widely used advanced and basic training aircraft produced by any country and provided the basic design for a single engine fighter intended for small countries that needed a simple aircraft with modern capabilities and features.

Peru purchased seven of the North American NA-50 “Torito” (Spanish slang for "little bull") single-seat fighters, factory serial numbers 50-948 to 50-954. Powered by a 840-hp Wright R-1280-77 Cyclone engine, the Peruvian single-seater marked North American Aviation's entry into fighter design. Based on the North American BC-1 (The AT-6 Texan was derived from the same platform), the concept was the ideal answer to the need by smaller nations for a lower-cost fighter. The wingspan was shortened to 37 ft 4 in, the sweepBack was reduced and the tips squared The fuselage structure was strengthened to accommodate the 840-hp Wright radial air-cooled engine with a 3-blade propeller. The armament consisted of two cowl-mounted 0.30-in (7.62 mm) Browning M12919 machine guns, two 0.30's in the wings and underwing racks for dive bombing.

North American Aviation pilot Paul Balfour made the first flight on 1 August 1938, and the final acceptance was on 15 April 1939. Peruvian pilots ferried the first three planes to South America and the other four were crated and shipped by boat.

The Peruvian NA-50's took part in the Ecuadorian-Peruvian war of July 1941, supporting Army of Peru ground forces.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:47pm
That looks good Craig - I like the thin appearance of the rattan bows, wish I had seen this before doing the canopy bows on my F5F.  A thought - don't necessarily have to do all the framing in rattan, could do just the forward and aft bows where the moving portion of the canopy meets the windscreen and aft glass.  Use those to support the clear plastic, then use tissue strips to make the framing.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 24th, 2018 at 7:55pm
Mike, as usual, you've thought it out better than I did!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:50am
Mostly done, only the prop to go. The pilot figure is Jimmy Thach, well known F4F pilot in WW2.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 26th, 2018 at 8:28am
AK - Nice head on shot and very nice finishing work. Hard to believe this is a peanut.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:00am
THAT is one beautiful canopy frame, Craig!  Really nice work.

I've tried a different approach to the proverbial bond paper canopy frame in the past.  Many years ago I constructed a Vultee P-66 from my own plans...canopy bond paper frame (actually cardstock) was first cutout with a nice sharp blade...then spray painted OD (both sides).  When dry...one side was coated with spray adhesive...then gently placed onto sheet acetate (clear plastic).  When adhesive had set, acetate (with frame now attached) was installed over cockpit fuselage formers.  For whatever reason I've always interpreted these "bond paper canopy frame patterns" as intending to be installed with that approach.  Of course, that may just be the way my noggin' is wired.  ;)  Whatever the case...worked famously for me.

Alf...great lookin' Wildcat!  Like the detail...i.e., especially those ventral windows...nice to know when the ground is coming up to meet you on that landing approach.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Did you know...on the F6F, Grumman intentionally designed the forward top fuselage/cowling with a downward curve to assist pilot visibility...eliminating the need for those ventral windows....  Buffalo also used those windows...before the Wildcat.  ;)

Tiny bit of progress on my KDA-5...empennage and fuselage are still in the ballpark weight-wise at 2.9g.  Goal is no more than 12g for the entire model.  Am I dreaming? ::)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:45am
I experimented a little with the canopy. The canopy bow is laminated 1/32 for strength and then sanded thinner. The front frames are regular building pins cut down and CA'd in place. I used cellophane and tacked it into place with CA, then used tissue strips glued with canopy glue to finish it off. I made a mistake with the smaller front frames (too short) resulting in the horizontal cross frames being out of place (too low), so I left them off. They would have obscured the pilot anyway.

Neal, I'm not sure what the fuselage windows were used for. At least on the Buffalo they were on the bottom of the fuselage and were larger and maybe allowed a better view. As for the over the nose visibility, the Corsair probably had the worst, the pilots flew a tight turning final to help offset this.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 26th, 2018 at 10:48am

New Builder wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 8:28am:
AK - Nice head on shot and very nice finishing work. Hard to believe this is a peanut.
Mike


Thanks, Mike! Yes, the pics are a little deceiving. The fuselage stringers appear relatively robust but are really soft 1/32 strips that were all too easily broken.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Neoflight on Oct 26th, 2018 at 7:05pm
:)
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 26th, 2018 at 8:53pm
Fortunately for the Wildcat...and America...there were happier times to come.  Significant changes later...the F4F-3 would "hold the line" until better aircraft came off the assembly line.

Grumman was in something of a hurry in order to even have an entree for the fly-off competition with Brewster and Seversky (if I recall correctly).  The result was that last photo...a seized engine/forced landing in a field across the river from the airstrip.  That landing gear was an adventure throughout the life of the Wildcat...narrow tracked, adopted from the F3F...just not robust enough to handle the increased weight of a modern fighter aircraft...and obviously a non-improved runway was even more of a challenge.  No one was injured in the mishap...and equally, no one could envision the requirements that would be imposed by WW2...in 1937.

Nevertheless...the Wildcat stepped (flew) into the breach and did the job...everyone learned in a hurry.

Great model, Alf...historic aircraft. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:25am
Further work on the Bonanza fuselage. That forward canopy consisting only of bond paper and no structure beneath it is still a question mark in my mind. Fuselage bones are 4.0 grams, including nose block. Covering coming soon. I am thinking of a light blue with black trim.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:15am
The wing plan calls for a 1/16” square LE, and one lower spar and TE made of 1/16” X 1/8” stock. I picked out some nice stiff stuff and built it that way, but just didn’t trust it with the dihedral breaks so I added a 1/32” basswood upper spar. All the butt joints are centered in the rib.

I asked for advice about increasing dihedral and got a few replies, all good. I have to face the fact I’m as much into at least semi-scale appearance as I am flying so I went with Neal's “give it  as much as you can accept and go a scosche more (I think that's a word- I use it all time :) )” which amounted to an inch at the tips which is about double what’s on the plan.

I like to build in the washout, 1/16" in this case, rather than torture it in with covering. Then, I can go “belt and suspenders” and lock it in with covering.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 27th, 2018 at 11:00am
Good luck with the 1/16" leading edge, Craig. :o

Ian...you might consider a coating of CA on your bond paper canopy frame to stiffen things up a bit.  Just an idea...try it on a narrow strip of BP to test things out.  Build is lookin' good! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 27th, 2018 at 11:36am
After the Whitman Defiant, I was already planning to cover this one partially assembled- Whitman designs seem to like complex wing mountings that just ask for it. The upside is, one can easily jig everything exactly plumb and square whilst gluing it up. At only a 16" span, it won't be too unhandy to cover in one piece. That 3-foot Boulton Paul 'bout beat me to death!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:31pm
  I mulled over what to do about that flimsy paper canopy for the Bonanza. I figured that CA wouldn't give it enough strength, so I put in a couple pieces of 1/32 and 1/16 for supports. They are glued both to the paper and to the fuselage framework. I am happy with it. One shot is from the front, and the other from the bottom looking towards the nose.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 28th, 2018 at 10:53am
Looks great, Ian!

As for my KDA-5...I'm getting ridiculous now...a sprung landing gear.  Believe me...even I can't construct a peanut scale aircraft heavy enough to utilize a "sprung landing gear!" 8-)  However...used the lightest wire I have on hand...so light that I haven't found a use for it yet during any of my previous builds.  ;D  The alternative was to use the historic "pin axles," which I'm certain would have done the job.  Fact is...wire lg in peanuts is only an attempt to keep the lg from being torn off in a landing...imo...which, is a pretty good reason. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Constructed the lower wings last night...1/16"sq le and te...very flimsy...all in an attempt to keep the weight down.  Going to be an adventure when it comes to tissue covering.  Stay tuned....seems like every time I save weight...the next process tries to add itself and then some!  It's a conspiracy! :-?

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 28th, 2018 at 4:11pm
The only problem with sprung gear is that they make the airplane go sproing!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:23pm

alfakilo wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 4:11pm:
The only problem with sprung gear is that they make the airplane go sproing!


That's a very dangerous thing, I understand...Sproing!!!  Better be very careful.  :o ::) ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 28th, 2018 at 11:48pm
I would say that that bending the wire that way for the LG is thinking out of the box.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 29th, 2018 at 6:13pm
Doggone it- So many plans, so little time. So, I picked this "Focke-Wulf 198" plan up- a nice full size original and copies. Just because the aircraft was a propaganda myth ( with pretty good imaginary specifications for 1940) that was never actually prototyped didn't stop Ace Whitman from doing an "Exact Scale" 28" span model of it! Looks like a nice light, interesting, pusher build, with room for some rubber...

I guess I'll file it with my "He-113," another hoax foisted on the allies, for later.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 29th, 2018 at 8:35pm
Better check this out, Craig...no myth: De Schelde S.21

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 30th, 2018 at 12:03am
My first tissue selected was no good for covering, so I went to my second choice, a Hallmark tissue. Unfortunately it is a little heavier as you will see. The first picture, I used an old light blue sharpie to stain the wood before covering. I left the center section unstained so that I could see how well it worked when covered. I found that the stain would not penetrate areas that were glued, so it was spotty at those areas. After covering, the unstained center section showed through, but the other stained structures were pretty well hidden. So I am fairly happy with that result.
  The framework started out at 0.33 grams. After staining, it was 0.34 grams. Covered, but unpainted it was 0.71 grams - more than double! And there is still the painting to come.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Oct 30th, 2018 at 5:22am
Ian- I like the results of coloring the framework. It seems a good way of hiding the bones on a light build to keep a more scale appearance- I'll be adding that to the toolbox!

Neal, I read up on the Dutch effort- Very similar airplane, but it looked, to me, more like a pusher FW-189 "Uhu" (named for our preferred glue stick  :D ).

Like the He 113, the German propaganda guys did a nice job of turning an aborted engineering exercise into a frightening weapon that only really existed in the plane-spotting guides...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:01am

pb_guy wrote on Oct 30th, 2018 at 12:03am:
I used an old light blue sharpie to stain the wood before covering.
ian


Good info! I've been thinking about airbrushing the frame in the color of the tissue to reduce the balsa look. Your example makes me think that it may be a good idea, especially where large ares of sheeting are used.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:05am
pb_guy - Terrific woodwork on the canopy of the Bonanza, very nice clean installation.

Neal - Constantly amazed at the ingenuity. Sprung landing gear! :o. How about a short tutorial on wire bending.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:42am
Concept is pretty much the same to me, Craig.  De Schelde design at least was partially constructed by the time the unfriendlies arrived in June 1940...Wik says that it was then "tested to destruction."  In my mind...the Focke Wulf and De Schelde designs are so similar as to suggest one stemmed from the other.  Either way...appears to be a throwback to WWI...an effort for improved forward visibility as well as elimination of synchronization mechanisms.  Uhu (He219)...owl...mine says Elmer's...cow.  ;D ;D ;D

Me thinks, Mike...that a "sprung landing gear" on a peanut scale model is going to remain "un-sprung." :D  You need to check out some of those beautiful designs by Col. H.G.Bowers of Flyline Models fame (e.g., Stearman C3B)...used ballpoint pen springs internally in lg suspension systems for his models!  Those models however, were three or four times larger than a peanut. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:43am
F6F Hellcat
Have begun covering the wing and will have it done today. As I move along, I have started to plan how to add the tissue to the wing after it is glued into the fuselage. The pictures show a considerable gap that can't be filled since the wing is so far up in the fuselage, guess I will need to wait until that time since I wont be holding it together and will have a more stable assembly (and yes there is a broken rib, one of two). Color starts tomorrow. and on that note, have just gotten permission from command central to move my color lab from the garage to the building room. Of course, comes with conditions, have to get a smaller compressor and no painting the walls allowed.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 30th, 2018 at 7:51am
Nice work, Mike.  Hard to get away from covering an assembled wing/fuselage setup on those Whitman designs.  Key is...take you time...be patient (I'm a hypocrite!).  Oh...and keep the paint light...even translucent, if you're going to fly her.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Oct 30th, 2018 at 8:57am
Looking very nice, 'specially your covering. As for that gap, maybe a piece of card stock (thicker than bond paper, glued only to the wing rib, not the side of the fuselage since it doesn't seem to be where the wing attachment area is located.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Oct 30th, 2018 at 3:27pm
Just meandering down the road on this build...no hurry.  Yesterday I managed to fracture practically every glue joint in the fuselage...as well as a couple of bottom longerons...all in an effort to keep it from dropping to the floor.  So...after collecting my thoughts...and recovering my temperament...called my crew-chief out and he about had a heart attack!  Being the good soldier that he is, he merely saluted and went to work.  He got the ground-crew to lay firm hands on the entire structure while he (MSgt Tazawa) pushed and pulled every single member...if it creaked...or moved...fixed it.  That's how it's done...good people on my ground crew.  ;)

Ok...now for the progress pics....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 30th, 2018 at 3:52pm
Your crew all deserve a raise and double rations!!! Well done...it's taken me a long time to learn, but now if it starts to fall I let it fall.  Usually less damage than if I try to catch it!!  I look forward to seeing this one come together!

I want to build a Japanese Willow trainer sometime in the future.
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 31st, 2018 at 7:25am

Quote:
and recovering my temperament

My wife mentioned that she thought this was a relaxing hobby (after one of my usual mini disasters). I said it is, just that there are too many fingers pressing on too many things at the same time, can't keep track of all the activity. Still looking right fine Neal, great recovery.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 31st, 2018 at 8:48am
F6F Hellcat
Been raining here past two days and today as well so got more time to work on the Hellcat. All tissue done on major assemblies, a little fill work to do around parts (wing and horizontal stab), nose block to complete and go to work on canopy plug. Decided to leave off the landing gear, mostly due to the accelerated covering, I have no way to get into the wing for the mount, probably balance better anyway. All up weight at this time is 9.65 grams.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 31st, 2018 at 10:21am
Wow! Did you fill it with Helium? Great looking machine.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Oct 31st, 2018 at 12:02pm
Thanks pb_guy. Not so sure of the weight (seemed a bit light to me too) as I've had that scale for many years, even before the advent of digital scales. Used it replicate finishing formulas in my wood shop, didn't care much about the actual weight, just the proportions. I do use my own wood and strip my own stringers and longerons so can control the weight. I'll get a truth teller soon.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Oct 31st, 2018 at 12:08pm
The wing is still pinned down to dry the second side. I decided to go with white and light blue. Nose block color still undecided. This is just posed for a semi-assembly shot. I won't finish the V-tail until after it is painted. Going to go with Krylon for the finish.
ian

update: weight at this point is 9.67 grams.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Oct 31st, 2018 at 4:08pm
Ian, Mike, your builds are looking great!  I got the Ace Whitman Fairey Fulmar plan printed last week, but I'm in the middle of putting my Tempest on a diet so probably won't get to start the build until after the Texas Scale Champs on Veteran's Day weekend.

Lots of nice builds in this cookup!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 1st, 2018 at 12:12pm
Major setback today...both lower wing panels went south.  This is what I get for building so lightly...and then becoming impatient with the covering process.  I covered the top wing from rib to rib, top and bottom...one little panel at a time...18 panels!, dry.  It worked!  Got to the lower wings and decided to hurry a bit...cover wet...entire bottom surfaces...and darned if it didn't bite back.  >:(

So back to the building board for a couple of replacement lower wing panels.  I must say...I've enjoyed other builds just a tiny bit more than this one.  Beware 1/16"sq le and te...as well as wings that don't call for some kind of main spar...not that those members created my problems...that was all Neal's doing.  :-?

neal :-[
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 8:14am
Neal, you are brave trying 1/16 le and te and no spar. Don't think it was entirely your doing, however...

Seems you got away with it on the top wings, any spar coming on the lower wings or going slower? Regardless, build is looking terrific as always and all will be well soon.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 9:18am
Thanks, Mike...you know what they say about folk that continue to make the same mistake over again and each time expect different results.... ::)  Well...I've built the same wings again...1/16"sq LE and TE with no spar...but this time I used a different tissue application process, i.e., dry...again, one panel, rib to rib at a time...spritzed and pinned to dry.  Worked again...just like the upper wing!

Lots of these old-timer builds forgo the spar as well as any real substance to the LE and TE.  Maybe they didn't shrink the tissue...or use dope...but as for weight savings, they obviously knew what they were doing.

Now I've got to figure what to do for "weather-proofing" all of this...I'm hesitant to even use cut-dope for what it might do! :-?  Maybe just matte-finish Krylon...something like that.

At any rate, I hate to quit a build.  Seems I can remember every time I've ever done that throughout my entire life in this hobby...always wishing I could go back now and finish the job.  Model airplane ghosts?  Belated Happy Halloween. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 10:34am
Whew!! I'm happy to see the second go at this. There is no way I would have tried this but your explanation of how to do it gives me hope!

I know its pricey, but would Gampi tissue be a good choice when trying to build this light?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 12:04pm
I AM AN AUTHORITY...on cheap domestic tissue only... ;D...no other type...unless some kit manufacturer was so kind as to supply it. ;D

Well...all's well that ends well...so far.  The model, as it sit (no rubber) is currently at 14.6g.  Now just imagine how things might be if it was a monoplane with no landing gear!  Of course, there remain the details to install...outer wing struts...markings...and rubber...as well as to paint those wheels...and more.  Alas...will probably come in....who cares what it will weigh!  At least the wings are straight. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 2:42pm
looks great! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Nov 2nd, 2018 at 7:36pm
11-2-2018

Everyone's builds look great now that Halloween is over I can start mine, here's what I did for my makeup work, I am an ape. I made all the prosthetics and did all the work myself. Enjoy. Back to model airplane building.

Cheers, Ray K.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 10:35am
Wow, Ray K- that’s amazing work! Hallowe'en is about my favorite holiday.

Got some work done on the wing root fairings- should start moving a little faster now. It’s up to ten grams with the cowling on- but there was a nice scale model hiding in that plan and I can’t stop myself.  I’m planning on doing plug-in LG.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 12:31pm
Are you certain that's a costume, Ray?  ;)  Bet you go around dressed up like that all the time.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Fantastic fillets, Craig...hang the weight, I say!  8-)

Ok...now to get the monkey off my back...my KDA-5 is complete.  I'm going to forgo the kanji markings...leave that up to a calligrapher.  She rings in at 16.7g...I'll accept that...motor et al, included...balanced...ready to go.  I did manage to get a coat of dope on her...cut 30/70...and she behaved well. Button is removable. Motor is a single loop (1.5 x length of fuselage) of 3/16" rubber...prop is 4.5"dia. "barrowed" from a Sterling peanut kit.  Dallaire needs it more than Sterling at the moment.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 12:32pm
And the grand finale....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 1:13pm
It is indeed grand! I'm pretty set on doping the racer and I'll try your 30/70 mix, but just to be sure, is this 30% dope? And what did you thin with?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 1:26pm
Yes...is 30% butyrate dope...70% lacquer thinner (I'm cheap)...shake well.  The fuselage is strong enough to not worry so much about dope shrinkage...but long wings are something else again.  I doped the wings in the same fashion that I covered them...one panel at a time...rib to rib...top and bottom.  The idea was to get some kind of uniformity during the curing...instead of doing an entire length of wing...where one area might cure faster than another because it had more dope, etc.  You get the idea.  It worked for me on my KDA-5 wings.  Dope a panel (top and bottom)...let it cure (dry)...before going to the next section.  Time consuming...but not as much as having to rebuild the structure.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

On the other hand...if one has good spars, LE/TE, etc...no so much to worry about.

Best of luck....

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 2:09pm
Neal, you've taken this cookup seriously! Beautiful work! There's plenty of Fall left- do a Joe Ott Ott-O-Former build now!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 3rd, 2018 at 2:15pm
Outstanding job Neal... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 4th, 2018 at 12:17am
Hello All...

I'm having great fun on this site.  Lots to see and a neat Cookup!  I plan on making something from Ott/Whitman but until then, here is my first entry:  A P-nut Austin Ball from Lee's Hobbies.  I'm just starting to strip my wood and "make" the kit tonight.  I'm going to try enlarging the rudder a bit in the hopes of NOT needing to add a clear acetate extension and also will attempt no dihedral!  :o



We'll see!

Cheers to all,
Dan


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 4th, 2018 at 8:23am
Craig - The wing root fairings are truly great and I need to do something like that on my Hellcat, both wing and horizontal stabilizer. Great inspiration.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 4th, 2018 at 8:25am
Neal - Another terrific build and super covering. I'm using your damp tissue method on every surface of my plane, flat or curved, works great and thank you for the tip.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 4th, 2018 at 8:33am
F6F Hellcat
Decided to assemble the Hellcat parts since any color on the remaining areas would look like double color so do it the hard way. Think I'll do the gap at the tail with a cut-to-fit piece of tissue and work around the wing with something. The gap was not as big as originally thought. The big hole in the bottom will be foam filled, tissued and blended with the fuselage or I may just replace the stringers and then tissue the opening, will know if the foam does not work out.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:35am
Thanks, Alf...Tom.  Padre...you better get going on Jack before some newbee arrives and begins building one for himself!  ;D  I am seriously looking forward to your build. ;)

Mike...Hellcat's moving right along...lookin' good...all the big stuff is complete!  Push ON!!!  You're right, try the foam for a new approach...but you really don't need it...stringers and tissue will be equally effective...imo. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

93Lib...welcome to the storm...uhhh...cookup.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  You've flown into a modeling vortex...never mind Bermuda and all of that stuff!   :o

Craig...fall has come and gone here...windy, cold...just waitin' for the s... to arrive.  :o  Hey...having now constructed Joe's Airabonita (modified to an Airacobra which actually looks more like a Kingcobra) and Whitman's "Karigane," I KNOW what you mean about not being able to stop adding wood!  ;D ;D  I also know that getting into those designs is a real involvement...a commitment in time!  Got to think about what I want to do next.  Really enjoying your NA P-64 (or whatever you're calling it)...great effort...lookin' good.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 4th, 2018 at 12:48pm
Neal, clear and pretty here for a change, mid-forties but hard frost this morning and too windy to fly. I'm done adding wood- what you see here goes 11.66g. As happens with Whitman builds, I think I might have to cover the stab/elevator in situ, too. At least the fin can go on after covering :) I'm calling it an NA-50 because that's what North American called the export model they sold to Peru- it predates the P-64/P-68 variant and has different wingtips and tail surfaces- and is the variant Whitman modeled.

It's getting porky but it just looks like it'll fly. W
ith no prop or nose button, it balances right now about mid-chord so hopefully it won't take too much ground-hugging ballast.

Please excuse my manicure- a little leftover paint from a Lotus cam cover I sprayed a bit ago :)

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 4th, 2018 at 1:56pm
To use a phrase I once heard my 95 year old father use (he passed some 8 years ago)..."She doesn't hurt my eyes one bit!"  Your model is beautiful, Craig...real eye candy.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I consider 11.6g as commendable...super "work."

A Lotus!  Does it leak?  I've got an MG...if it doesn't leak...ain't British.  I like that car because anyone can work on it.  I've also got a 350Z Roadster that's got SEVEN (could be more?) computers controlling everything...and that's beyond me.  I replaced the fuel pump in it once...was an adventure finding access to it...not to mention the $800 parts price!  My son-in-law (expert mechanic-proprietor of his own business) shows up with some gizmo that he plugs into something-or-other under the dash...says, "Go ahead and replace the pump...computer's ok."  :o

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 4th, 2018 at 2:15pm
The Lotus is a '67 Elan. Of course it leaks oil! Rope rear main seal, oakum & white lead stuffing all over the place... I have the Lotus, two E-types, a mkII Jag, a Midget, and an old Alfa in the shop right now. I'll be filing an Environmental Impact Statement if one doesn't leave this week!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Nov 4th, 2018 at 2:52pm
That's quite a list of cars in the shop Craig!  Want to take care of the bum master cylinder on my 308?  Now, back to sanding lightweight replacement tailfeathers for the Tempest...

Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 4th, 2018 at 3:42pm
Y'all are amazing...such progress and I'm still trying to tape the plans together.  Got caught up transferring plans to Free Flight Archive and so I haven't been modeling much.  Enjoying the work y'all have been doing.  I hope to start the Jack this week.  Been thinking of the spinner for the Walfisch to finish that one.  I'll be working on the Jack soon.  You know how the modeling mojo comes and goes as life interrupts things.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 4th, 2018 at 7:22pm
Wow, Craig!  That North American job is really neat.  I really like how the gun troughs look.  And the canopy frames.  That's some skill, there!  :o

And Mike's Tempest looks great too.  I need to dig through and find the rest of that thread...

Cheers,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Nov 4th, 2018 at 8:09pm
Thanks Dan - the Tempest isn't part of the cookup (although it is one of the things holding me up from a cookup build).  The main build thread is over on HipPocket Aeronautics, which is down for site upgrades at the moment.  There's a couple of pictures and some background on the Tempest in my hangar here:  http://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1495240957

Cheers,

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 4th, 2018 at 9:10pm
Holy Cow, Mike...those are some fantastic models.  I started and loved the Waco and then kept looking.  That one shot of your Tigercat etc. looks like Reno.  Just lovely.

I have quite a lot learn from you fellows!  So neat and trim.

Cheers,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:09pm
Looking great Neal! And that weight is good for what it is. Looking forward to your biplane Dan.
  With the Bonanza, I painted up the tissue with Krylon and glued in the wing and stab. Weight is 10.5 grams without rubber, prop, trim and wheels (made in gear-up mode saves weight!). Working on sealing in the tail feathers with some stringers and tissue. Just posting these pics to show that I am still working on it. It just seems that things are moving a little more slowly.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:15pm
Ian,
the Bonanza is looking great.  Reminds me of a flight I was fortunate as a kid to take.  Friend of my folks was a pilot for Ozark Airlines and owned a Bonanza.  It was instrumental in starting my love of airplanes and modeling....Yours is fantastic!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 4th, 2018 at 10:33pm
Nice colors, Ian!  Your butterfly Beech looks great. Can't wait to see it in the Wild  Blue....

I did a bit on the Austin tonight.  I made the rudder/fin a bit larger and used 1/32nd wet laminations for the outline.  Really easy and less tedious than all of those little chunks of 1/16th by 1/8th!   ;)  Stab was built per plan.




My hope is that I won't need to use clear acetate for an extended fin but we'll see.  Even enlarged the tail looks pretty small... :P

I think I'll start the wings tomorrow.
Cheers to all in this Cookup!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 5th, 2018 at 1:49am
Okay, I'm in.... Mother Nature has the Gee Bee on hold.
Moved manufacturing into the house.

Found this in my stash, a Comper Swift, an English kit. Got used to 1/8" stringers, these 1/16" and 1/32" ones are rough on the fingers and eyes.

Tried an egg carton as a buck for naminating, worked well.

Mark
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 5th, 2018 at 8:33am
Lookin' GOOD, everyone!

Ian, Bonanza is a sweetheart...reminds me of my ol' Wen-Mac powered CL bird from childhood...only much nicer.  What's your plan for that forward canopy?  Looks great without it...but, I suppose it has to be there.  Great model! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

The Austin-Ball has always intrigued me, Dan...a bit of this, a bit of that...I'm sure Albert knew what he was doing...looked like he intended to improve on Fokker's tiny rudder.  Nice work!  Is this work?  ;D

OK Tom...take your time...no rush...I'm still anxiously on hold for your JACK to begin.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Welcome to the cookup, Mark!  The peanut aspect has really opened it up to all manner of subject material...great idea, Tom.  ;)

NOW...I would like to build another Whitman model...but, as I said, I seem to be caught up in this Peanut vortex...can't seem to get out (not trying very hard either).  Sooooo...to escape my Japanese captors...I'm considering a subject of my own planning...a model that I constructed years ago, like more than 35 years ago...maybe even one of the first peanut scale models I endeavored to create...a Vultee P-66 Vanguard.  My own plan was hand drawn...researched from reference books (desktop computers were pretty basic back then...monochrome displays!).  It included a landing gear...and as I recall, suffered a great deal from wing-warp issues...but not so severe as to preclude having around for years.  Alas...is gone now...but hopefully not for long.  Intention is to lighten it up...see if I've learned anything at all during that huge time-gulf.

Neal

PS...Has a very interesting story behind the Vanguard...and Vultee, for that matter.  If you recognize that tail as belonging to a Vultee BT-13 (Army's most prevalent training aircraft during WW2), there's a reason for that similarity.  ;)
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 5th, 2018 at 10:10am
The stuff that’s keeping me fom covering the Totiti...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 5th, 2018 at 10:26am
Craig! Found this 10 miles from here. 21,000 miles, 390 with a 4 speed. No rust! I had one only it was red with white stripes and a 343. It's a 69.... He want 14k for it. Damn.....
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 5th, 2018 at 11:24am
You need to buy that! One of my clients in Morgantown has one of the AMX 3 concept cars- talk about nice packaging fir a 390!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 5th, 2018 at 12:54pm
I look forward to the Vultee project, It definitely has some good lines.

Those cars are all on the list of ones I like or have owned in the past.  If only I had some of those cars today!!!  Well at least I can own aircraft in Stick and Tissue I could never afford in real life, full size aircraft!!! :o ::) :D ;D

I had a 70 Javelin that I loved.  Drove the wheels off of her and wish I'd just rebuilt the motor instead of trading her in.  That's a really nice AMX...best of luck in moving those jewels along.  Hard to beat the lines of the XKE.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 6th, 2018 at 11:51pm
Did a bit more.  I got the wings completed!  Only thing left is the fuselage. 

Going well!  More soon...

Dan
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 7th, 2018 at 8:09am
F6F Hellcat
All these builds are simply terrific
Went back and forth on how to fill the hole where the wing went in, foam or stringers? I thought what could go wrong with the foam and the answer was nearly everything so decided to use the stringer replacement therapy. Had to add some wood to provide tissue attachment points and started with the stringers thinking if it went really bad I could cut the whole thing out and start over. It's not very pretty but will get the job done and it is on the bottom and I don't need to show it again. My digital scale arrived yesterday and found my weight has gone up a bit, analog scale said 9.65 grams. Still fairly respectable all in all.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 7th, 2018 at 1:57pm
Next project is something from the FFA website plans, the Comet Nickle kit Monocoupe. A chance to use the box fuselage method and an attempt to build as light as I can using the many tips offered here.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:57pm
Here she is.  Basically done.  Not the prettiest or the straightest, but she's light and I have no reservations about tossing her into the air!!!  Finished weight about 12 grams.  I'm planning on double loop of 3/32 rubber 2x fuse length for the motor with the light indoor prop.  Balance is currently pretty close so I won't have to add much weight.

You ask "why green for the wind screen?"   I have no idea!!! :P
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 7th, 2018 at 3:56pm
Looks great Brad...as for the green, It's obviously to handle the bright sun when it comes out in the Pacific Northwest!!! Our eyes aren't always adjusted to the bright sun due to the regular clouds and rain!!!   :o ;D :D ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 7th, 2018 at 6:18pm
Very nice! I hope my Monocoupe looks half as fine as this!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:13am
Nice Taylorcraft, Brad...gonna fly great!

Well gents...I'm slowing down on this build...more like mired in sluggishness.  Still...committed myself with a wee bit of building...empennage.  Next will be the wing.

Vultee launched the Vanguard as part of a concept project during the late 1930's.  The idea was to design and construct various sub-assemblies that would be common to multiple aircraft types for ease of manufacture.  The idea was to use the same empennage and main wing structures in several related models, a basic trainer, advanced basic trainer, and finally in an actual fighter combat aircraft.  The project was labeled "48," it's entire expense being funded by Vultee, no involvement with the War Department.  Project 48 was never intended for consumption by the United States military establishment, but instead directed toward export abroad.  Vultee was all too aware of the difficulties of elbowing its way into competing with the preferred "big boys" within the War Department lexicon.

To that end, approximately 150 units of the 48C were manufactured to fill an order placed by Sweden...who were very much aware of the desperate situation their neighbor Finland was in against the Soviet Union.  Just as delivery was about to commence, FDR slapped an embargo upon any war materials destined for Sweden, lest it be used to assist Germany.  The USAAF took control of all 48C's, dubbing them P-66 Vanguards...ultimately shipping them to China via India to assist the AVG.  Vultee constructed no more Vanguards...the Army considering them as being unnecessary and the Curtiss P-40 mission adequate.

The P-66 was very much comparable to the P-40, 340mph max speed, by many accounts, lighter in overall weight and a delight to fly.  Operationally its armament consisted of two .50cal mg in the fuselage and two .30cal mg in each wing.

Unlike the Navy's treatment of Brewster however, the Army did extend some "love" toward Vultee by accepting the advanced basic trainer of Project 48, officially naming it the BT-13...of which 11,000 units were delivered between 1939-44...to the USAAF, USN...and the USMC.  In effect, the empennage and wing of the Vanguard lived on.

Neal


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:00pm

Quote:
Not the prettiest or the straightest

Brad - I've got a very different perspective and think it came out just fine, in fact, beautiful. Nice and straight. Can you comment on the trim and registration numbers?
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:03pm

Quote:
Comet Nickle kit Monocoupe

Alf - Wow, 10 inch wingspan, curved longeron and no spar. I'm watching. Will be great as always I'm sure.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:35pm
Wing completed.

Vultee, like many other aviation designs of the time, attempted to cowl-in the radial engine of the prototype Vanguard...with the resultant cooling issues.  Focke-Wulf attempted the same thing with their prototype Fw-190.  Solution was to go to a more conventional open cowling configuration.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 8th, 2018 at 11:05pm
Monocoupe progress, things clipped together with much yet to do. Differences so far, a thin 1/32 x 3/32 trailing edge instead of a 1/16 square, wingtips, stab, and tail are laminated 1/32 instead of 1/16 sheet. Undecided about the cowling area, thin sheeting or bond paper? Never have liked how paper responds to moisture.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 9th, 2018 at 11:23am
Monocoupe looking good! Gets a bit more finicky when building little things.

I ran across this pic of a Vanguard in British colours from the October 1941 issue of Air Trails. See: https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=2334
ian

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Nov 9th, 2018 at 5:24pm
Mike:  thanks for the kind words.  You'll notice I didn't take any photos looking down a straight surface  :)  It's not horrible, but I really didn't focus on quality.  Like I said, I want to toss this plane into the air.

My trim is black tissue applied with easy dope.  The lettering is horrible - my worst job ever!!! jaggy edges, etc.  The number is from the book Anthem and is part of the name of the main character "Equality 7-2521". 

I'm hoping to fly this weekend and I will try to get some video - good or bad - and post a link next week.

Brad

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 9th, 2018 at 6:01pm
Ian, I've always liked the P66. I have a 1/24 card stock model, that I haven't finished ( go figure ) and built a Diels laser cut kit. The Diels Kit went together very nice. Sorry, just noticed Neal's building the P66. I wonder what ever happened to the ones shipped to China. Scrapped I'm sure.

Getting closer. This thing is small.

Alf, there was a basket case of a Monocoupe floating around here some where, I wonder if it's still available. Would be quite a challenge to restore. Awesome airplane, no VNE.

Mark
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 9th, 2018 at 9:41pm
Lookin' goooooood, Mark!  ;)

The Vanguard is one of those mystery aircraft that no one really has much, if any, historical data...at least in Chinese service.  A lot of "Sunday morning publishers" want to claim they do...but their credibility is suspect.

If there is any credence to this photo...the P-66 did indeed serve the Chinese Nationalist Air Force.  As to it's service record against the Japanese...?  Story goes that they were so sorely needed, they went into action while still sporting U.S. markings!

Second Photo...Chinese markings...at the ready.  Note the RDF antenna fitted below the wing center-section.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 10th, 2018 at 12:38pm
Info on covering something this small. Neal and others have offered tips and I've tried to put them to good use.

The tissue is domestic wrapping paper from Michaels or Hallmark. I used my plywood vacuform frames for pre-shrinking, one is about 8" square and the other about 5". Glued the paper down with Elmers and sprayed with 50/50 water /alcohol. The tissue tightened up nicely.

To cover the stab and tail, I left the tissue on the frame. I put the frame over a sheet of balsa about the same thickness as the frame allowing the tissue to lay flat. Then applied Glue stick and pressed the stab/tail piece down on to the tissue.

After cutting out the pieces, the tissue was still pretty taut on the frame allowing me to use it again for the bottoms of the wing and the fuselage (see first pic). I did the wings on the frame and cut out pieces for the fuselage.

The 1/32 wing ribs are so narrow that they are difficult to attach tissue to and so I added a thin 1/32 rib cap as shown in the third pic. I'll try to do the top in two pieces, the main wing and then the wing tip.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm
Wow...these are some great looking builds, All! ;)

I got a bit more done on the Austin-Ball.  I'll work on the top later tonight...Cheers!
Dan


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 10th, 2018 at 4:00pm
Smoooooth, Alf...lookin' great!  Suggestion...lay some waxed paper down on your building board...and pin that wing as it dries (upper surface)...do one side at a time, of course...to compensate for the dihedral.  DON'T DO A NEAL...BE PATIENT.  ;)  Best of luck!

Looks terrific, Dan...got some "brown tissue?"

And now for my Vanguard...I've heard this is exactly how the original was designed...some old dude fiddling around.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Here's a Vultee propaganda shot...if that photo isn't posed...then never has been a posed photo!  Loading the ammo trays while some tech runs the engine up...while wearing headphones, no less...and chocks pulled!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 10th, 2018 at 4:46pm

Kerak wrote on Nov 10th, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Smoooooth, Alf...lookin' great!  Suggestion...lay some waxed paper down on your building board...and pin that wing as it dries (upper surface)...do one side at a time, of course...to compensate for the dihedral.
Neal


You did mention doing one rib panel at a time to avoid warps...a technique I should have followed. Despite pinning everything down, I still got a huge warp, probably because only the top had been sprayed with the water mix. So I unpinned, resprayed both top and bottom and then repinned to let dry (no hair dryer short cuts!). The result was a big improvement.

Lesson learned, however. I'm doing the other side one rib panel at a time. 

Good luck with the stringers!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 10th, 2018 at 6:48pm
Neal's suggestion is good.  I usually use scrap strips of stringer material to keep the panel off the table so air can circulate under the wing also.  A little crayon or candle wax helps keep them from sticking.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 10th, 2018 at 8:55pm
For elevating the panels above the board while drying, I have used finishing nails and plastic toothpicks purchased at the local $ stores.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 10th, 2018 at 11:55pm
I'm loving that Vultee! 

Here is my last installment for the evening.  Apropos that I'm working on this little guy near Armistice Day...and the 100th Anniversary!

I got the fuselage basically all done, fitted the lower wing and the tails.  Tomorrow I'll play with the landing gear and the wing struts starting with the interplanes. 

I really wish I knew who Lee was of Lee's Hobbies as this little model is a real jewel.

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 11th, 2018 at 12:39am
Dan,
Nice set of bones... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 11th, 2018 at 11:06am

pb_guy wrote on Nov 10th, 2018 at 8:55pm:
For elevating the panels above the board while drying, I have used finishing nails and plastic toothpicks purchased at the local $ stores.
ian


Good idea! I've been using wooden dowels and sometimes stuff sticks to them. Using a non-wood spacer probably avoids this!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 11th, 2018 at 12:56pm
Good morning fellow Vets...and those who aren't...you don't know what you missed.  It was an interesting "party." ;)

I must just be lucky...because I've always pinned the wing down over waxed paper...wet side up of course...without any type of spacer.  I've never had it "stick" to the waxed paper.  There was always a bit of moisture...dampness...that weeped through to the dry surface against the waxed paper...but never posed a problem.  If y'all are speaking of spritzing both sides at the same time...and then pinning the wing down...I suppose you'd want that air circulation.  Whatever....

Stringers laid onto the Vanguard fuselage...all are 1/32" thickness...some are sq...some are 1/16" wide.  Only the centerline crutch was 1/16" sq...and much of that has been cut away for motor clearance.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 11th, 2018 at 4:45pm
Yep....both sides spritzed at the same time.  So the spacers are for drying the bottom at the same time.  Great job you're doing, on the Vanguard.  I really like the looks of that aircraft!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Alfredo Arbe on Nov 11th, 2018 at 5:30pm
Im following and enjoying all builds!
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 11th, 2018 at 6:47pm
Man...I do like that Vultee.  The more I see it, the more I need to build one.  Nice job.

I made the interplane struts on the Austin-Ball out of hard 1/16th with a very thin piece of wire embedded into the middle of each along the length.  The ends sticking out just puncture into the balsa supports glued to the ribs.  Easy and everything is straight and true for a first try.  I may work on the landing gear and wheels tonight, sand the struts and make the cabanes too.  Basically, it's all up the covering now!

Thanks for looking and THANKS VETS!
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 11th, 2018 at 7:43pm
Very nice build, Dan...of a very rare subject.  I don't think I've ever seen an Austin-Ball modeled before...in any category!  Great job...nice clean work.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I recall years ago seeing those Lee Hobbies models advertised on the AHC (America's Hobby Center) pages in Flying Models Magazine.  If I'd have had any sense back then...I'd have purchased the series!  Isn't that the way it always is...I coulda...shoulda.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Good to see you're bringing them to life here at SnT!  ;)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 11th, 2018 at 10:52pm
Dan,
The bones look great.  Is any flying in the future for this bird?  If so you might want to consider some dihedral for those wings.  Most Free Flight (always capitalized) require some dihedral.  I think I've heard of a DR1 getting away with no dihedral but I think it's really rare.  Just a thought before you start covering! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 12th, 2018 at 7:22am
Real life has been hectic, but got a good start on covering the NA-50 yesterday.  Doing the assembled airplane isn’t as bad as I thought it might be. The hard part is not beating the wings off of it. I did bang up the cockpit framing a bit, but it was straight runs.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 12th, 2018 at 10:32am
Isn't that the truth!  The more I handle my build, the greater its jeopardy!  :o  On the other hand, I've come to the decision, Craig...that covering insitu does have its problem solving advantages.  Tissue covering those glaring gaps is a lot lighter than balsa in-filling.  ;)  In fact, I believe it would be awfully difficult to build these Ott/Whitman designs any other way.  Your NA-50's lookin' good. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I've got some worthless data here...Vanguard bones thus far weigh around 6g...but then there's still a lot to add on....

cowl ring/cowl wrap
tissue/dope/paint/insignia
prop/rubber motor/motor peg
canopy material
landing gear?

Can I get all of that in under another 6g? :o

Here's a photo of a Vanguard that has had some hard use...gun muzzle scorches, oxidized paint, chopped LG covers.  Speaking of which...I'm annoyed at "aviation writers" who make the claim that said covers were removed as a result of "flimsy construction."  Check out the mud markings on the wheel sides...daaaa.  Unimproved airfields obviously necessitated additional clearance.  Japanese removed Nate's wheel pants...Oscar was manufactured with LG covers exactly like Vanguard's modified units...for the same purpose!  The P-40 had no extended LG covers! Mud must have been a real issue on those Chinese airfields!

Note the Mitchell bomber off to the side...might indicate this Vanguard was by then operating with the 23rd FG....  I still find that RDF antenna interesting...not common on a fighter aircraft...but seems to have been fitted in the field for operations in the CBI.

Like I said...worthless data.... 8-)

Neal

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:15pm
That's no RDF antenna, that's a three quart drop tank!   ::)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm
I like that, Marlin. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Could be a septic tank....  Had a friend who has since passed...was a B-17 waist gunner...said they used a helmet as "facilities"...then after it froze...tossed it out over Germany...claimed it was their "secret weapon," called it a "Wizz Bomb."  ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 12th, 2018 at 5:39pm
Neal, back in 91&92 I toured with "Memphis Bell", the one used in the movie. A Vet told me that on one mission they had some brass that wanted a metal. They all hated him. Well, he needed to use the releaf tube at altitude, someone used it earlier. When the ice thawed, it blew back in his face. He, the story teller, had a big smile on his face!
Mark

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 12th, 2018 at 7:21pm
Great stories...even greater guys...I used to work with many of them...wonderful experience for me.

My friend, Wayne D...made a bailout over Germany on his 9th mission...a harrowing story all by itself.  I've got a Sterling B-17 that I'm going to build one of these days...to honor him.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Don't want to get too far off topic.  Honor our Vets! ;)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 13th, 2018 at 10:52am
Lily B is done! Grand-daughter Lily's favorite color is green, so...
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 13th, 2018 at 11:00am
Super, Alf!  Straight wings look GREAT!   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 13th, 2018 at 11:30am
Outstanding Alf!!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 13th, 2018 at 12:49pm
Lily B looks great  [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Perhaps you should paint the prop green too? or are you going for the Christmas theme?
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 13th, 2018 at 1:02pm
Covering the Vanguard...one strip at a time...as dictated by the surface-mounted stringers.  Using the wet method....  Cowl area to be sheathed with 1/32" balsa.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 13th, 2018 at 7:30pm
The last thing I need to do is install the motor. This is as far as I'll take it. Should be a good flyer.
The parts on the board are for a Diels Globe Swift, next up.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Nov 13th, 2018 at 8:18pm
Looks great.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 14th, 2018 at 9:09am
;D

Grand-daughter Lily wanted the Lily B to fly, so snow or no snow and with just the minimum of balancing, we gave it a toss.

Thankfully, snow is soft! Just a tad nose heavy which should be easy to fix although there isn't much to stick weight to. Maybe I can use the motor access opening. In any case, the little ship seemed otherwise reasonable stable. More snow tomorrow!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 14th, 2018 at 11:22am
Just put skis on the wheels.... :D ;D ::) ;)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Ray_K on Nov 14th, 2018 at 5:48pm
11-14-2018

Ok, I finally decided what I am going to build, too many choices, I will do the Ace Whitman Bellanca Cruisemaster.

Should start building next week, I will be off work for vacation so now's a good time to start.

Cheers, Ray K.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 15th, 2018 at 7:28am
"Still going...."

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 15th, 2018 at 8:03am
"Still looking great..."!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 15th, 2018 at 11:05am
Neal,
You've made me add another plane to the "To Do" list.... She looks great!  Those wheels look very good did you turn them yourself?   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 15th, 2018 at 5:38pm
Thanks, Alf...Tom.  The wheels are pretty simple...each consists of 3x1" dia. disks...2 ea 1/16" sheet and the center disk is 3/32" sheet.  One outer disk has a 1/2" disk cut from its center.  After assembly, the entire wheel is shaped using a piece of sandpaper...including the inner edge of that 1/2" dia. cutout.  The idea of the cutout is to allow for securing wheel/axle with a glass bead and CA.  A cardstock disk is then glued over it all to hide things.

The entire wheel is then immersed in a glue-water solution...I call it glu-soup.  The drying glue solution will raise the wood grain...so it's rough again...and a lot tougher.  Sand it smooth once more...and that's it.

I usually use 1/16" dia. aluminum tubing as a bearing....

All of this is generally pretty mundane...hopefully.  ;)

Sheathing the cowling...constructing the cowl ring...no rest for the weary.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 15th, 2018 at 6:13pm
Thanks Neal for the explanation on the wheels! They're outstanding!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 15th, 2018 at 7:09pm
Still slowly working on the Bonanza. The front windscreen is now on. Side windows yet to go. I went with bond paper to fair over the top of the V-tail. The lettering and wing-walk is black tissue. Not too happy with it, but it works. Up to 11.0 grams now. Prop yet to come.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 15th, 2018 at 9:11pm
Lookin' great to me, Ian...bond paper fairing on the tail looks like it "belongs."  It's right a home. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Nice detail...love the landing lights...lettering is great, too.  You're doin' Joe/Ace justice!

Ok...got the cowling and cowl ring created for "Wong Wieng Lo."  Did you know:  Consolidated and Vultee merged in 1943 to ultimately become Convair...yep.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 15th, 2018 at 11:33pm
Ian...like the blue and white and the windscreen looks good. 

Neal...tissue looks great.  Y'all are really getting things done.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 16th, 2018 at 5:28pm
Hey gents...it's Friday...and that means another football weekend is upon us!  You're all football connoisseurs, I'm sure. ;) ;D ;D ;D  When I became a fan, there were only 10 games per team in an NFL regular season!  Somehow, it seemed better that way.

As a result, all building activities...or nearly all...will reach a big slowdown.

With that in mind...a SITREP on "Wong Wieng Lo," as I've christened my Vanguard: Got two coats of cut butyrate dope on all surfaces (30/70...same mix as my KDA-5).  No warps. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Tail wheel is now in place.  Tasks remaining are wing fillet areas, canopy, oil cooler air intake, fuselage .50cal bulges (maybe), upper surface paint, wheel cover doors, insignia, and motor/prop assembly. 

Weighed everything this morning...came in at 10.41g as is...so NOT going to make my project goal of 12g.  Oh well...such is life.  I'm devastated. 8-)

Thanks friends........

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 16th, 2018 at 5:56pm
That's looking really clean and sharp, Neal! I'm into wing covering on the Torito- I picked hard enough sticks for that delicate LE, but I'm fighting some "pringling." I'm thinking a quarter-inch of washout on a 16" span might be a bit much!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:44pm
Like dihedral, can there be "too much washout?"  :-?

The first time I constructed my Vanguard...maybe 30 years ago...I recall all kinds of problems with "pringling."  :D  I truly believe, Craig...that on these lightly designed/constructed wings, the key is to cover in small panels, shrinking and even doping as you proceed.  The idea is to reduce the overall stress that large pieces of contracting tissue can place on the structure.  Been working for me lately.  To go a step further, I've taken to cutting the dope big-time during its application.  Best of fortune with your covering work.  I've absolutely come to the conclusion that though building small is an economy of materials..."ain't so" when it comes to effort...maybe even more demanding! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Continue with the "good stuff," Craig.  ;)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 16th, 2018 at 9:22pm
OK, I give!! What's pringling?

:)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 16th, 2018 at 9:55pm
A very technical industrial effect...you know...like the shape of those "pre-fab" chips that come in a canister...I'm assuming.  ;D ;D ;D  Very similar to the "banana effect" that we all want to avoid.  ;D ;D ;D

I'm not a "pringle" man myself...but I'm sure a lot of folk are.  8-)

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 17th, 2018 at 12:38am
Covering looks great from here...a lot better than mine!  I shrunk mine with water as it was taped to a sliding glass door and left it overnight (don't tell my wife)...then I ironed them flat!

Now I'm just covering as usual and giving it a bit more shrink with isopropanol for the tails and flying surfaces and a bit of water on the fuse.  I think I actually shrank too much as I'd like them to look a bit smoother on there, but it was an experiment and still looks nice enough.  Plus...no pretzel parts as of yet!  Oh...I also started adding some markings which are just printed on white tissue and glued on with an Uhu stick.



It's coming along! 

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:23pm
This one is for Neal! The Buffalo prototype to match the Wildcat prototype.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 17th, 2018 at 8:40pm
Lookin' good, Dan...I can almost see Albert sitting in the cockpit now!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Hey thanks, Alf...yep, I'm a Buffalo fan, no doubt about it.  To say that in this world is about like announcing that you think Custer was a competent leader (and he was).  8-)  Incidentally...that cylinder behind the pilot's head is for single man life-raft storage...imagine what happens if it should inflate at the "wrong" time?  :o  That might cause a little distraction.  ;)  Nice work, Alf! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 17th, 2018 at 9:35pm
Custer...interesting fellow. On the way home on a road trip, we passed by the Little Bighorn Battlefield and decided to see what was there. What an experience, absolutely nothing like I expected. Made another visit after a year or two of studying the battle to get a better perspective of what we think happened, understanding that about all we know for certain is that Custer got himself and 200+ other folks killed, but how and why, etc is pretty much all conjecture since the only survivors of the actual Custer battle were all NAs and their accounts are spotty.

If you haven't seen the battlefield and have the chance, plan a visit. I guarantee you that it is not what we saw in the movies or even read about. For example, the common picture of Custer making his 'last stand' resulted in about 40 plus KIA. But there were about another 220 or so KIA. Where were they? As it turned out, all over the place. The battlefield is about 5 miles long and a mile or so wide, spanning both sides of the river.

Lastly, the Hollywood picture of Errol Flynn, saber in hand, fighting to the last man, is pure baloney. Custer left the sabers back home.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 17th, 2018 at 11:44pm
What a cool Buffalo!  And LBH is an amazing battlefield.  Eerie and quiet.  When the wind is blowing a bit and nobody is around, it's just chilling to imagine the clash.  Agreed...go see it.

Not to change the subject, but this little Austin-Ball sort of fell together tonight with little to no drama.  I got it all covered, added some Sharpie control surface demarcations, painted the forward part with some grey paint and painted my struttery with some Tamiya clear orange paint.  They look nice and varnished now.  Everything is pretty straight and true so now I need to add the landing gear struts, the wheels, the engine, gun and rigging.  Actually really close now.

As shown it's 7 grams.  Not too shabby!  Now will it fly?  Hmm.... :o

Cheers and thanks for looking,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 18th, 2018 at 10:10am
There's absolutely a spot in my heart for WWI types, Dan...and your little A-Ball is very nice. 

Isn't it interesting that as soon as Capt. Ball was "gone," so was his design in the minds of the "Farnborough Establishment."  Got to researching some years ago, what the actual WWI RFC/RAF color looked like.  According to Kenneth Munson, first attempts to establish this information (interviews with actual WWI vets) proved a disaster!  No two individuals recalled it the same way!  While the RFC had a numbering system, there are no details as to actual mixtures!  Soooo...brown...green...or somewhere inbetween...it's our choice!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I immersed myself in a "binge" of WWI building during this last year...I have an affinity for that brown color.  ;D ;D ;D

Custer...another subject near and dear to my heart...been into that subject all my life...literally!  Been to LBH several times over the past 45 years...walked the place over...had many in-depth discussions with many people.  Guns and NA's not withstanding, there are LOTS of politics in that story...and an undercurrent of less-than-honorable characters.  "Custer died for our sins," or at least those of a society and the Grant administration.  That's one take on things (and I find is hard to judge history...in current terms, that is.).  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Human history is like the flow of a great river...and all THAT infers.

There is a very nice little book, Alf...Osprey Aircraft of The Aces: Brewster F2A Buffalo Aces of WW2...beautiful color plates, etc...but even more so, the story of those who used the aircraft to greatest advantage.  Inspirational...blows apart most hackneyed claims.  One man's nag was another's noble steed, et al.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 18th, 2018 at 10:15am
I am enjoying the heck out of this cookup- what’s not to love? Rarely modeled aircraft, 80 year old plans, amazing craftsmanship, interesting history... I hate to see it end!

Getting a little done between work, family duties, and raising puppies. Yep, my Australian Shepherd sidekick got married and started a family of his own. All but his bride (a Mountain Cur) and one son have moved out- the boy is staying. He ate his first airplane kit yesterday- a rite of passage, I suppose. An early Comet A-26. But he learned his lesson...

Today’s task is insignias and maybe start glazing the canopy. Then, on to building a prop, nose button, and maybe plug-in LG. Then after I get done thumping it around, guns, antennas, etc.

Pinning it down and re-shrinking took out the extra washout- I wound up with closer to 1/8" than the 1/16" I built into the wing panels, but as Neal says, like dihedral, what is too much? At least they're equal and seem to be staying put. The gray tissue is Easy Built Lite, the black and red trim, Esaki.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 18th, 2018 at 10:33am
Love it, Craig!  Your model and...."Plane-eater!"  THAT is one cute pup...just look at that face...wants to do it again, I know that look!  ;D :D ;D :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Nov 18th, 2018 at 11:16am
Craig, Dan, both models look great!  Craig, I feel your pain - our 1-year-old lab discovered my workbench two weeks ago.  Casualties were limited to a couple of paper towels, a bar of clay, a bottle of Titebond and the discarded fin and stab from my Tempest rebuild.  There is now a baby gate at the entrance to our upstairs family/building room...

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 18th, 2018 at 3:34pm
Thanks Mike, Craig and Neal!  Craig...that is a beautiful model.  My cat usually causes no end of problems.  He likes to eat balsa AND plastic and when I build paper models, usually a few fang holes show up...

I have this thing ready for a test glide.  I'll report soon.  I finished the gear, wheels, added the engine and exhausts (they are from heated and bent plastic sprue while the cylinder covers are just sanded balsa colored with black Sharpie)...Still needs rigging, a Lewis and, of course, a prop.

Super close now!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 18th, 2018 at 4:57pm
Well Craig, who says that it has to end. We just move on to different planes.
Looks good Dan. Brown is a hard tissue to find in the $ store. I still have some from about 1980 when I built a peanut SE5. No idea if it would still work.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 19th, 2018 at 12:42pm
Good morning friends and neighbors…fellow aficionados.

This is your lucky day…I’m going to tell you exactly what happened at the Little Big Horn.  After a lifetime of interest and study…the evidence was always out there…our prejudices not allowing us to accept it.  Truth is…according to testimony of the ten or so NA combatants at the river crossing lower Medicine Tail Coulee, George Armstrong Custer was in all probability shot off his horse mid-river, fished out KIA or nearly so, and carried to what today is known as Last Stand Hill.  This is according to first-hand testimony as given to David Humphreys Miller.  Check this man out!  This is the reason for all the confusion and standing around that occurred, as well as for the Regiment pulling back from the river.  The unit was now leader-less…literally. Adj. Cook probably assumed command and deployed the various Troops in a defensive perimeter with orders to hold until Capt. Benteen/Reno arrived.  This was a totally contrary action to Custer’s character.  The entire attack had unraveled with a single well-placed shot at the river.  Further details upon request….

YES, there is a model airplane in this diatribe!  I made a claim during this cookup that my interpretation of these canopy frame patterns was that they were to be used in conjunction with cellophane.  To that end, I’ve put my model where my mouth is.  Frame pattern comes from the notepad on my desk…cellophane from those $.50 fruit pies at the bakery.  Other materials are 3m spray adhesive and OD Rustoleum spray.  You get the picture(s).

Neal

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 19th, 2018 at 5:21pm
Neal, I buy the same pies. Have to remember that trick. P66's is looking good!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 19th, 2018 at 5:40pm
Thanks, Huey...the pie helps to take "the pain" (what pain) out of this hobby.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Might as well combine a little pleasure with it all.  ;D

So...no nibbles on the Custer line.... ;)

Got those two canopy patterns w/cellophane into place...now for the windscreen...which is always a challenge for me.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 20th, 2018 at 7:07am
Custer was better at Generallng than Braxton Bragg, I suppose...

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 20th, 2018 at 8:48am
Generals Longstreet and Forrest would have thought so, or "so I heard...." ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 20th, 2018 at 9:57am
Greetings All and the builds are looking great. Neal, the windscreen is my failing also. My Interstate windshield has a big dent in it that I put there, accidentally of course, as the glue was setting up and I made the decision to just move on, it could have been worse. At least there were no finger prints on it.

Been away for quite a while but got some time in on the Hellcat. All covering done and the patches around the wing, top and bottom. Not very pretty but there none the less. Canopy plug will be started today and working on my version of tissue cals, no printer just applying color. Color starts today as well.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 20th, 2018 at 10:59am
Well Mike...dents, smudges, and fingerprints are all SOP for my canopy efforts. Just have to call it operational wear and tear.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Reminds me of a story, Mike...Hub Zemke spotted an EA off in the distance...heart began racing...plotting his next move...EA was staying right with him!...until he realized it was a dirt speck on the inside of his canopy.  ;)

Here's my latest effort at creating a builtup canopy...paper frame patterns and cellophane.  It'll have to do...'cause it's too late to remove it. 

Just before I retired from the 388FW a friend talked me into doing water color painting...which has a lot in common with model building, i.e., at any point in the process...it can all irretrievably "go south."  That's the way I feel about canopies.  :-?

That painting used to hang on the wall in my office.

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 20th, 2018 at 12:03pm
Neal...

You really nailed that canopy!  Looks great.  I wish mine looked that good...Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 20th, 2018 at 10:01pm
Thanks, Dan...I didn't "nail it" quite that good...but it'll have to do.  I suppose it was kind of an experiment...haven't worked much with cellophane...but all those old plans call for it.  I'm sure there are some meticulous modelers out there that can really knock it out of the ballpark...people a bit more careful than I am.  ;)

I'm now at the point of accomplishing those "fiddly bits," as Tom so appropriately calls details.  For me...I sit and look things over for a long time...then suddenly find myself working on it all...day-dreaming I suppose...soaring above the clouds in my P-66 Vanguard.  ;)

Keep up the great work, gentlemen and enjoy your Thanksgiving Day...lots to be thankful for...and that which "ain't," well..."don't mean nothin'!"

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 21st, 2018 at 12:36am
That P-66 has turned out fantastic.  It's always the fiddly bits that take all the time in a build.  Your canopy looks great! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 21st, 2018 at 2:49pm
Thanks, Tom.

And now...just in time for the holiday festivities...I give you my final Fall Cookup build...a peanut scale Vanguard from my own 30 year old plan...TaDAAAAAA (hear fanfare).

Thanks, fellas.....

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 21st, 2018 at 3:18pm
More....
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 21st, 2018 at 4:09pm
Sweet!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Nov 21st, 2018 at 7:07pm
Yep, Sweet!  :)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:22pm
NICE, Neal!  That 's a nice looking machine.  How did you did your cool Chinese markings?  They look nice and solid but don't look like paper from here.  My tissue markings never look that nice...

Neat job...Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:43pm
Thanks Tom, Huey...and Dan.

The insignia are printed on tissue...trick, Dan...after you've printed a sheet of them...mist one side with Krylon flat white.  The key is "mist," gives the other side an opaque quality...doesn't allow the tissue you're glu-sticking it to...to show through quite so much.  I noticed that on your Austin-Ball...next time give it a try.  The process also strengthens the "cal" a bit as well as helps to shield against the moisture of the glustick.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  This is my Bristol M1C...tissue-cals were misted on the backside with flat white...made all the colors fairly vibrant...imo.

The first time I constructed this little puppy (P-66...many years ago) I did the insignia in color tissue...built-up layers...and that was just a bit meticulous.  Glad to have a nice printer now.  Incidentally...got one of those refillable tank units a year ago...prints super...and still haven't had to refill any of the ink tanks!!! ;)

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm
Too cool!! Very nice capture of the paint color!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:58pm
Thanks, Alf...how's "our" Buffalo coming along?

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 1:17pm
Almost there. Waiting for the canopy glue to dry on the center section and then I'll do the windscreen. All that's left is to attach the wings, tail, etc. Oh, and finish the cowling. Still working on how to do the cowl guns, tissue decal or wooden dowel.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 1:41pm
Another completion!  I got the little Austin-Ball finished.  It's 16 grams with prop, rubber and ballast so we'll hopefully give a flight report soon.  I really just finished rigging with EZ-Line elastic thread and made the radiators and Lewis gun from balsa, stretched sprue and tape.  Looks the part and this was a really fun plane to put together.  I'd recommend it for your first biplane since it is basically all lined up, no stagger, single bay...easy!

Cheers and now maybe a Whitman or Ott model?
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 1:42pm
One more I couldn't fit!

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 1:57pm
Beautiful work, Dan!  That Lewis is very nice...as is your entire model.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 3:10pm
Dan, she's a real beauty!  Well done. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 4:14pm
Beautiful! The fiddly bits are something else! Hope the trimming and flights go as well as the build!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 6:59pm
The Austin Ball looks great!
  The windows are now glazed with super light plastic, like that used for packaging CD cases. I found an old hardwood thrust button and an old prop that came out of some other model from about 40 or more years ago. I added some magnets to hold the nose block on. Then I installed a loop of 1/8" rubber in it and gave it a toss just before it got dark. I tried to take some in-flight photos, but they turned out blurry. It did not need any ballast and flew with perfection! Only about 10 second flights with about 200 winds. Final weight with everything is 16.0 grams.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 23rd, 2018 at 7:12pm
That's a beaut, Ian.  Really nice colors and light weight!  Fun to see how she'll really fly with some turns!!!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 24th, 2018 at 1:44pm
Working from my phone, which I find trying, so I’ll keep it short and save the accolades for all the great work I’m seeing until I can get to a real keyboard- but all y’all are craftsman of the first order!

Glued up a prop last night, whittled it and built my first freewheeler today. The prop is bushed with 3/32” aluminum running on a fixed 1/16” brass tubing shaft with the prop hook running in that.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 24th, 2018 at 9:59pm
Waiting for some motor parts, but this is pretty much done. A few touch-ups to go.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 25th, 2018 at 11:09am
Very NICE, Alf!  So how did you accomplish the "labeling details?"  I constructed one of my favorite models many years ago...a Buffalo...used a labeling machine to print them out on self-sticking tape...wasn't entirely satisfied with that.  Yours is a dandy.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Just imagine...that was only Brewster's second attempt at designing an aircraft...a winner.  Put some real "egg" on the Navy's face...not Brewster's intent I'm sure.  Then Grumman turned around...used Brewster basic design and messed it all up...oops.  Took more than a year's worth of modification by Grumman to make the Wildcat "work."  It then became a matter of how to get rid of Brewster.  Incidentally, while the Navy and War Department pronounced Brewster to be "null and void," they were still allowed to produce the F4U Corsair for Chance-Vought during the war.

Outstanding model, Alf! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 25th, 2018 at 3:37pm
By "labeling" do you mean the tail lettering? These were printed on the same tissue that I covered the tail with. Trying to match the font was difficult. I ended up using a bold font that was a little larger than it should have been just so the lettering could be seen. The tissue didn't blend in perfectly, probably because the airplane had a coat of thinned dope on it and that changed the tissue color slightly. I haven't tried doping the lettering for fear of the dope blurring the ink.

The wing star was printed on white tissue and glued on to the doped wing.

Here's a close up of the canopy framing. Not happy with it, too much balsa showing. I used cellophane on the front windscreen and thin sheet on the rest. The prototype had a rounded windscreen/center joint that was too hard to do without a vacuform so I fudged it a bit. I want to paint the framing but am afraid of not being able to match the tissue color.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 25th, 2018 at 3:46pm
Neal, you mentioned Brewster's initial attempts. Their first proposal was a scout bomber, the SBA-1. When I saw the attached pic of it, I was hooked! It's just a tad larger than the Buffalo and I think I'll add it to the 1930s collection that we have going here.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Nov 25th, 2018 at 4:02pm
Hey Alf...she's a peanut...I'm really pleased with the result you've achieved on the entire model...lots of little detail that really lends to its character...even that cylinder behind the pilot's headrest!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Really nice work.

If you're using EZ-dope...you're right to be concerned about its effect on the printing.  Butyrate dope on the other hand...I've never found it to adversely effect printer work.  I sure would like one of those printers that uses ink impervious to water....  Read that Epson was the deal...but my super nice tank printer is an Epson...and doesn't use the proper ink for that purpose.  Oh well...aren't printers handy for our hobby!!!

I think we're allowed to "fudge" a bit on tiny models...and to build within reason.  Looks like a dandy F2A to me! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Yep, that's Brewster first effort...purchased by the Navy in only a very small number.  Then, that's almost the way it was during the 1920's-30's, a literal "cottage-industry."  Brewster had a torpedo bomber...the SB2A Buccaneer later on...that nobody wanted...very much like Vultee's Vengeance.

Again...very nice work, Alf! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 25th, 2018 at 5:09pm
I'm really having fun with the air armadas of the 30s that we have been coming up with. The pre-war era is so interesting with all the new ideas etc. I'm going to continue with prototypes or initial models starting with this Brewster XSBA-1. The one available plan leaves a lot to be desired so the project should be fun. I'm debating on whether to have the landing gear up or down...probably up to match the Wildcat and Buffalo models.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 25th, 2018 at 11:30pm
Alf...great job on the Buffalo... You can download a free font of USAAF and UK WWII lettering that gives pretty much the US lettering for most aircraft called "AMARILLOUSAF": Click Here

The challenge of the SBA-1 is that midwing mounting for the motor clearance if trying to build a one piece wing.  But two wing panels with a jig will make it ok!  Well within your skills.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 25th, 2018 at 11:42pm
Wow...the stuff you learn here and what a great Buffalo!  Never heard of that scout bomber before either.  So cool!

I guess in keeping with that trend...my next one will be another peanut this time from Ed (I think?) Heyn from Model Builder Dec. 1975 and it's a not often modeled Roland D-XVI.  I'm sort of trying to build models I tried as a youngster and my poor Dad had to finish and this was one of them.  I saw the one wing and figured at 9 years old, how hard could it be?  So now is my chance to do it justice.

As I looked at the plans, I did notice several issues with the overall drawing that make it far from a scale likeness.  This is NOT a dig on the model designer!  We just have so much documentation these days, it's amazing.  I have both multiple photos of this plane and 3-views in a book all about Roland aircraft!  Who'd have thunk it possible?  Anyway, I've made the changes you see in red on the plan.  Mostly modifying to make it a more scale outline.  A bonus is that it actually increases the wing area!  It's no Fike, but it's much better than a Fokker D-VIII!  More soon and I'm having a ball!  ;D ;D
Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 26th, 2018 at 2:16pm
A flight of two early prototypes in 1939!

XF4F-2 Wildcat on the left and XF2A-1 Buffalo on the right.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 28th, 2018 at 6:14pm
We’re getting a superb representation of the state of military aviation at the dawn of WWII going with this cookup, and a great understanding of the state of the scale model building that was going on before the horrors of that conflict took over.

But, there’s one big hole in the subject matter- none of us has built a Joe Ott wartime model. There is almost a month of Fall left. If I get the Torito wrapped up by the end of the weekend, I’m thinking I might do one- right out of the box. It’s a model airplane, not the Mona .Lisa  ::) :D :)
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Nov 28th, 2018 at 6:19pm
It's spruce and Bristol board. I want to see if it'll fly. I suppose I'll need some appropriate rubber from the stationery store if rationing hasn't gotten it all.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 28th, 2018 at 11:48pm
Agreed...I'm thinking of a Fairey Battle from Ott too!

Until then, I got the wing built on the Roland.  Fun project so far.

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:22am
Alf...love the formation shot...two good looking early birds!!!
Craig...I'm really looking forward to following this build and how the materials work together. You may need to add some "Air" (lightening) to the build but I've heard that they were designed to get some air under the wings successfully even with these materials.
Dan...very nice looking wing. Will you be adding some dihedral?
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 29th, 2018 at 11:38am
Thanks, Tom...

I have 1/4" at each tip. The original plan call for 1/2" and it looks like a '30s competition rubber job...so I had to lessen it a tad for my own tastes.  We'll soon see if it was enough!

Cheers,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:39pm
Dan, neat wing design with the cracked rib and turbulation spar.

Marlin

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 29th, 2018 at 1:43pm
Thanks, Marlin...I wish I'd have used 1/32 wide cap strips rather than 1/16th x 1/32nd as it would look nicer and be lighter, but...we'll see! 

Thanks again for looking,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Nov 29th, 2018 at 11:10pm
All,

A tad more...I made the tail edges with 2x1/64th balsa strips (just 1/32nd sanded down) glued with Titebond.  I should be able to make the tails tomorrow night!  The tail needs to be lighter than usual as I have moved the wing forward to be truer to scale.  Probably a bad idea... ::)

Thanks for looking...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Nov 30th, 2018 at 9:51am
F6F Hellcat
Greetings All - Back after many days away and must say the models in this cookup are absolutely magnificent. Great work all around. As I mentioned, I'm back after some time away and as of today am working on my models nearly full time. Was in my building annex (garage) this AM (35 degrees there) and finally got the canopy plug sanded and hope to pull the canopy this afternoon although the wife is making sounds about Christmas decorations coming down so that means the one person climbing the ladder is me. Small interruption and all looks great when she is done. There's a hole in the bottom of the plug to glue in a dowel so I can mount it in my bench vise to pull the plastic down over it. More pics soon.
Mike
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:29pm
What a super collection of builds we have going on!

Brewster XSBA-1 coming along. Basically same size as the two other prototypes.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Nov 30th, 2018 at 8:49pm
Looking good AK!  I must say, your formation is crying out for the prototype Corsair...

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 1st, 2018 at 12:06am
I agree with Mike.  Prototype Corsair with yellow wings and all!  That would look sweet.

I got my tails glued together and used 1/16th x 1/32nd...hoping for light and strong.  The outlines worked a treat, though.

Thanks for looking...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 1st, 2018 at 10:06am
Not sure what I'll do next, but the XF4U is an interesting project. There is a ton of material on the 'net to help and a XF4U plan as well. Or maybe I'll look into P-40 prototypes.

One odd aspect I found in browsing Google was this anti-aircraft bomblet feature. Never heard of it before!!

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2008/06/antiaircraft-bombs.html

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 1st, 2018 at 11:33am
F6F Hellcat
Very excited - pulled down my first canopy. Not on the first try but on attempt 3 it went down beautifully. Also learned not all plastic is created equal. Some of the plastic parts from some cakes was too heavy and just buckled up and went into a ball. Took some time to understand the heat needed and how long to stay there but worked. Last 2 pics are the trimmed canopy. Found out I needed to add 1/16th to the instrument panel and the head rest to accomodate the canopy outline. Maybe will add that material to the canopy plug on the next plane.
Mike

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 1st, 2018 at 10:59pm
NICE looking Cat, Mike.  The pulled canopy does look the part.  I finally had the best luck with thin clear plastic from hobby stores as it seems to be the right weight and sags nicely.

Yours looks great.  Congrats!
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:46am
Started covering the top and bottom wing and stab surfaces.  Tomorrow I may get the rudder/fin done and start building the fuselage!

Thanks for looking...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 7:42am
Good job with the canopy!

One thing that has helped me with adding the framing on canopies, especially larger ones, is to ink the framing on the wooden plug. Then put the plug back into the canopy to act as a guide when adding the tissue or paint for the framing. Any final detailing is done once the canopy is attached to the fuselage.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 9:36am
AK - That is exactly what I did. I tried trimming and fitting, too much work so then the gray matter lined up and told me that the plug was the right shape so use it. Did and the canopy is exactly the shape of the inside of the cockpit frame. So need to add a bit of wood for the canopy to rest on. Otherwise it worked really well.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 12:04pm
Getting closer on the Torito- took it outside for a toss while there was a pause in the seemingly endless rain we’ve been having. At 19.36g AUW less rubber, it’s going to need a bit of nose weight.

A pair of Ace Whitmans and a Peanut. I'm having fun!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:22pm
Super job, Craig!  But...now you must tell me about the canopy on your "Torito"...cellophane?  What adhesive did you use, etc.? Details...please.  ;) [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Mike...I think Alf was suggesting that the plug be marked with the canopy framework...to aid in application of tissue or paint framing to the plastic...at least that's the way my mind read it.  Looks good!  The correct amount of heat applied to the plastic has always been the issue for me...too little and it "ain't gonna pull nowhere," and too much...goes cloudy...even turns white!  :-?  Problem is...seems we're always using plastic from different sources...different "guage"..."weight," and therein lay the "?".  You done good!

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 3:47pm
Thanks, Neal- The canopy is the same .004" acetate I used to pull the canopy for the Avenger- only this time, cut into pieces and glued over the cane framework with SIG canopy cement. I took Mike Kelly's advice and lost the longitudinal pieces of the frame- I removed them two at a time (leaving them temporarily to stabilize the bows) as I worked my way back from the front of the canopy gluing down the acetate and watching episodes of the excellent BBC "Battlefield" series, on YouTube, while each section dried.

After I got through the Battle of Britain, the Battle of Kursk, and half of the Norwegian campaign, it was all glazed. Then I did the external frame in strips of silver Esaki applied with Elmer's glue stick.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 4:20pm
That's a lot of glazing, Craig...a great job of modeling!  Looks terrific!  Have you wondered yet how many times in the past anyone did such a "bang up job" on a Whitman "North American Fighter?" I'm thinking that the folks a Whitman would have been very pleased with your effort.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Beautiful work, Dan...printed lozenge "fabric."  Tell me about your adventures in shrinking printed tissue.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 5:14pm
Wow!  Lots of activity and some real beauties out there!  I really want to start my own Whitman design soon...

Ahhh...shrinking tissue!  I just tape a sheet to a window and spray it with water.  I then pull it off and iron it on a low, non-steam setting which gets out more wrinkles and maybe squishes out any traces of moisture (perhaps).  In my case with the lozenge, I scanned some old decals I have and just played with them until they looked about the right size in a Word document and cut a piece of the shrunk tissue out, tape it to a piece of paper and throw it through the printer using the singe sheet feed feature.  Comes out pretty well. 

I cover using glue stick and isopropanol.  Once it's all dry, I spray everything with some Krylon flat clear (or equivalent...couldn't find any the last time I looked). 

This process seems to tame most of the worst shrinking and still allows the tissue to look nice once done and dry.

Hope this helps!  Now...back to covering and making plywood.

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 5:24pm
Most printer inks are water soluable...NOT good for shrinking with water!  Sorry for not being very clear in what I meant.  The printing part has never been much of an issue...it's about shrinking the printed tissue after it's attached to the model.

Here's my Aviatik D-1...entire model is covered in printed tissue...insignia and numerics included in the same print run.  Spritzing printed tissue IS an adventure.  ;D

Neal
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:26pm
Mike...outstand models...well done [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Neal has a real handle on the printed tissue technique.  Epson's durabrite ink is the waterproof ink that works well for printing tissue!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 2nd, 2018 at 8:48pm
WHOO-BABY!  Those are nice!  So far, I've never had any issues.  Mine is a Brother printer and the ink seems water stable.  At least, I've not seen any running...

Here are the wings and stab all done with markings and inked moveable surfaces complete.  On to the fuselage!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 8:56am

Quote:
Mike...I think Alf was suggesting that the plug be marked with the canopy framework...to aid in application of tissue or paint framing to the plastic.

Neal - You are right, I was reading selectively and apologies to AK. That will teach me...again. It it a very good idea and will put it to use for the canopy trim, another area to master.

The picture is the plastic I was referring to "not all plastic is created equal". These are the lids from some of the local bakeries and were quite thick so now know a bit more of how to grade the plastic. The canopy started out fairly thick but ended up being extremely thin .49 grams.
Canopy_Failure.jpg (85 KB | 18 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Brad on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 2:05pm
I finally got to attempt to fly the Taylorcraft (last post pg 29).  Actually, this is my first true attempt to fly any of my planes.  The good news is...... future flights have got to be better!!  It "flew" terribly  >:(  I'm hoping I can get some advice here for my next try.

I started with two strands 3/32 rubber, twice the length base to prop with the white 'indoor prop'.  500 winds and it just didn't have any pull/power and didn't do anything close to flying.  Then swapped props to Peck Polymer with same rubber, 500+ winds.  Better, but still so pathetic.  Next we swapped rubber for a single strand of 1/8th, about 1.33 length of fuselage.  Rubber broke around 350 winds - see photos  ::)  I'm thinking I need nose weight to start with, plus a change in rubber.  I got the plane all patched up no problems, so she is ready for another try.

Here is a video 

https://wdrv.it/5c389934a


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by strat-o on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:13pm
I think this plane can be made to fly well.

Here are the key points in order of importance (IMHO):
1. Center of gravity: make sure the plane balances (as if in level flight) at the CG shown in the plans.  If no CG is shown, set it for 1/3 the way back from the leading edge along the chord.
2. Geometric symmetry: Carefully sight from the front along the center line as if the plane were flying directly at you.  Slowly pitch the plane up and down.  Do all of the flying surfaces present identical angles (left side vs. right side) to your eye?  If not, attempt to adjust so that they do.
3. Is there some positive decalage? I.e., is the wing at a slightly higher angle of attack compared to the stabilizer? The wing should have maybe about three degrees higher angle of attack compared to the stabilizer.

i think those are the key things that when correct will get you into the ballpark and will enable you to make your Taylorcraft fly right.

Marlin

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 10:07pm
Lots of tips and tricks on this site...check out this tip on trimming your plane for flight: Click Here
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 4th, 2018 at 1:02am
I was looking around for a peanut plan and ran across this 1932 Jimmy Allen plan for the Fokker Triplane on HPA. Definitely a stand way way off scale. But interesting. Did the wings last night and this afternoon. Weight 1.17 g.
ian
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=fokker_dr1_-_jimmy_allen_001.pdf (303 KB | 23 )
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 4th, 2018 at 10:41pm
Today I did the tail feathers and fuselage. I went with laminated 1/32nd since the original was bamboo. I am going to use a removable 1/8" noseblock, so a slight adjustment to the nose design will happen. That won't hurt, since I expect that more nose weight will be needed anyways.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:18am
Wow, not much wood in that one Ian!  Should be very light, covering will likely test your delicate touch.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 5th, 2018 at 11:34am
I'd recommend pre-shrinking the tissue on a frame before application!  Framework looks great so far! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 5th, 2018 at 2:59pm
Progress on the SBA has been slow. Trout season is open and today was a super day. My son and I got 20 or so, all catch and release. Some in the 2-3 lb region.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 5th, 2018 at 6:50pm
Nice looking pan-fry size rainbow! Best dropped into the frying pan just off of the hook.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:35pm
Finished the fuselage of Jimmy's Fokker Triplane.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:11am
Wow!  That is a lightly built tripe!  I agree that it will likely fly great...covering will be key.  Will you only cover the top sides?

Here is some slow progress on my Roland fuselage.  I'll try to get the cockpit and lower fuselage done tomorrow.  Got a first stab at the cowling as well.  Looking good!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:05am
The rudder and stab are supposed to be one surface only, but the wings might be a bit flimsy if only covered on one side. I'm going to use a red sharpie to colour the structure so it won't be obvious on the tail surfaces. I've built a few peanuts. No problems with wood sizes. It looks like you are using 1/32nd for those turtledeck stringers. Good going!
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 7th, 2018 at 12:34am
Sanded parts and stained the wood with a red sharpie. Finish will be red tissue sprayed with Krylon, which doesn't seem to make it run at all.
ian
parts2.jpg (51 KB | 23 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 8th, 2018 at 5:01pm
I will need to start the Joe Ott Martin Maryland in the future due to too many issues and lost stuff. So Ill bow out of the cookup for now. But plan on building in the next one.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 8th, 2018 at 5:55pm
Cool idea to paint the wood with sharpie.  It will look great!

I got some more on the Roland including the main landing gear, the bottom of the fuselage stringers, and the tail skid.  Finally...I also got the cowl cheeks in place.  Only thing left is the rest of the cowling and then off to the covering shop!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Dec 8th, 2018 at 7:45pm
Nice!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 8th, 2018 at 9:26pm
Ian...the red marker is a great idea on the balsa for the single sided covering.  I look forward to seeing this come together.

Dan...the fuselage bones look great!   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I'm hoping to get my building mojo back soon.  Have had some family issues lately that have gotten in the way!  Had to put the building on the back shelf for awhile.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 9th, 2018 at 4:44pm
On the subject of attaching canopies...I just had a strange situation.

I've been using cellophane lately and this time I thought I would try Aleene's Tacky Glue rather than the usual 560 stuff. It didn't work, the cellophane did not stick. OK, back to 560. Same result. Odd. Maybe it was because I had painted the frame with acrylic beforehand, so I sanded that off and tried 560 again. Same result.

OK, time for the big guns. Used Gorilla gel super glue. Same result. WTF??!!

Is it possible that some type of plastics resist gluing?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 9th, 2018 at 4:56pm
Yes some plastic/cellophane is resistant to certain types of glues.  On a test piece of the cellophane you might try an acetone/lacquer based glue to see if that will work...but be careful that the cellophane doesn't desolve away and shrink all around the glue application. Some glues will eat/disolve plastic very aggressively!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 9th, 2018 at 11:54pm
A bit more on the ol' Roland.  I got the cowling roughed in and covered the top and bottom of the fuse.  The sides will hopefully look like strips of ply.  We'll see!
Happy Week to all...
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:42am
Ready for test glides!! This is the Brewster prototype dive bomber that was obsolete by 1941 and was relegated to training duties. The Douglas Dauntless had its beginnings about the same time but was a much more successful design.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:56am
Well...maybe it was no good, but it sure looks cool to me and you made a GREAT model of it!  Never seen one before.   

Keep us posted!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 10th, 2018 at 12:12pm
AK...the Alfakilo Aeronautics Corp is really turning out aircraft!!! Great looking Brewster!   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 10th, 2018 at 1:50pm
Dan, beautiful looking airplane. WELL DONE!

Alf, I have always want to build this airplane after seeing it in a book. Great job.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 10th, 2018 at 2:27pm
Love it, Alf!  Doesn't that forward canopy remind you of the "Sandy" in RVN?  Looks wide and roomy for its day.

Hope you've got a nice display idea planned for your NAVY prototypes...really attractive models.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 11th, 2018 at 8:16am
Thanks everyone!

The cowling is held in place by the motor tension. I balanced it using fishing split shot that I had flattened with pliers. Once I had the weight right, I glued the split shot to a piece of balsa sheet and then stuck that inside the cowling.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:51pm
All,

With the help of my son and a cool computer program that allowed me to import some tweaked plywood strips, I got the fuselage covered.  Not perfect, but I do like it all the same.  A nice experiment.  I'll do better next time... ::)

Thanks for looking,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:10am
Very nice job.  What size ply did you use?   1/64" thick sheet?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 12th, 2018 at 11:42am
It's all trickery with printed tissue.  I did thin lots of the sheet balsa in areas like the deck and cheeks to more like 1/64th, though.

I really hope this guy flies!

Cheers and thanks for looking...Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 14th, 2018 at 1:15am
Tissue looks great Dan!
I got a couple of hours with the Jimmy Allen Triplane, so I am working on the covering with pre-shrunk tissue. I decided to go with only a single side covering on both wings and tail surfaces.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 14th, 2018 at 11:52pm
Thanks, Ian!  Tripe is coming along too! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I had a slight disaster with part of my top wing...it got some water on it and the ink ran...but I just recovered it.

Got the wheels on and the last of the markings.  I also couldn't help it and glued the tails on.  It just looks really cool.  Still working on cleaning up the cowling and that will get painted soon.  Tomorrow, I'll start getting the wing situated.  I think I'll be using toothpicks for the struts with some wire attached to the ends.  This will look sort of like tubular steel (I hope!  ::))

More soon and when does this build end?  I really want to make some more!
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 15th, 2018 at 12:22am
I called it the Fall Cookup but I see no problem extending it to be a Fall Winter Cookup and that gives me the opportunity to build my "Jack"  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  So let's consider this Cookup extended through winter (whatever that is determined to be).
EDIT:  Just Googled "Winter 2018"
Winter 2018 in Northern Hemisphere will begin on
Friday, December 21
and ends on
Wednesday, March 20, 2019
All dates are in Pacific Time.
HOW'S THAT SOUND TO EVERYONE?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 15th, 2018 at 1:02am
I will now rebuild the Joe Ott P-51.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 15th, 2018 at 1:40am
Dan, bamboo toothpicks or skewers work really well for struts. I used bamboo for the struts and landing gear on my DVIII.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 15th, 2018 at 6:50am
Wednesday, March 20 works for me. Thanks for the extension.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 9:14am
Does anyone have the Ott plan for the Me109?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 15th, 2018 at 9:26am
Alf- I PM'd you.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 10:50am
Hold the presses!! I did a little more Googling and found a source for the Ott Me109:

http://balsachips.net/static/contents/maxfax-2014-02.pdf

I'm going to build it per the Ott plan substituting balsa for the ersatz material that he was using at that time.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 11:25am
The Ott plan seems to show the wing ribs with a concave underside. Were the wings covered only on the top?

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 15th, 2018 at 11:53am
I think they were covered on both sides!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 12:07pm
Here are the ribs. Any tips on how to do the undersides?
me109_ott_ribs.jpg (8 KB | 17 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 15th, 2018 at 1:07pm
Depends on just how you'll attach the tissue.  But it's similar to standard applications.  You just have to be sure you have securely attached the tissue to each rib on the wing bottom before shrinking or as you attach the wet tissue.  Takes a bit more time and effort but the tissue has to be attached to each rib! to make this work, not just the outline of the wing's L.E. and T.E. and tips and root ribs.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 15th, 2018 at 1:38pm
On the undercambered Cleveland contest wings I've done, I've cut a strip for each rib bay and covered the bottom first- thinned white glue for attachment. You can come back through and touch up any loose places from inside. Then, cover the top with one piece (if the frame will take it.)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 2:04pm
Good ideas! Seems odd that given the younger audience that Ott was selling to that he would use this technique.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 15th, 2018 at 3:20pm
Well, he was also designing those complicated wing attachments that require covering the aeroplane all of a piece. Methinks pre-war youth were handier. :0 :)

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Dec 15th, 2018 at 4:55pm
AK,

I have an original Ott Spitfire kit that has similar ribs (the plan is available on Outerzone, search "Joe Ott").  They are made of thin hardwood and very rigid.  The directions on the plan say to cement 1/16" square stock in as the lower rib, add the spar, then add the curved upper rib.

On the Spitfire the wing is not intended to be undercambered.

Edit: the same instructions are on p.9 of the newsletter containing your plan - see step 15.
Hope this helps.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 15th, 2018 at 6:40pm
Hi All,

I didn't want to start any issues...I'm just having tons of fun building!  I'd sure go for a lengthened time slot.  Winter is a good time to build, after all!

Thanks for the bamboo/toothpick ideas!  I do think it will look nice an be plenty strong.

More tomorrow...maybe the wing attached!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 15th, 2018 at 7:13pm
I had trouble setting up an FedEx account so that I could email a pdf plan for them to print out. All is fixed except that I still need to go to FedEx to have them set me up for the local store to except my email.

Then I will have them print out the Ott P-51 for me to build.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 15th, 2018 at 7:20pm
Thanks, Mike! I missed that.

Here's the fuselage so far. Nothing final, just wanted to see what it looks like. Fitting, aligning, and gluing tomorrow.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 16th, 2018 at 11:30am
Built the stab and rudder off the plan using soft 1/16 sheet that I will sand down some.

I'm using medium 1/32 sheet cut to 1/16 width for the fuselage stringers. A pleasant surprise was to see how well the plan notch marks lined up on the fuselage formers. I cut them out of 1/32 sheet and left the paper on for strength...and then was glad I did because the notches were so useful.

So far, so good, but I can see a crusher T-shirt in the future!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 16th, 2018 at 1:26pm
[quote[ So far, so good, but I can see a crusher T-shirt in the future! [quote]

Alf, welcome in advance to the club of crushed stringers. ;D

I just had (2) sets of the Ott P-51 plan and parts printed out at FedEx so that I could join y'all.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 16th, 2018 at 11:23pm
Man!  I just can't keep up with you guys!  Looks like a great start!  I shall make the King Cobra, Fulmar or Battle...Maybe even the Devastator thrown into the potential mix.

In the mean time, here is the Roland all ready for some test glides.  I'm really glad I made this guy and it reminds me of my Dad making it for me all those years ago.  Now I just hope it flies!

Cheers...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 17th, 2018 at 12:15am
Dan, outstanding build [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I love the color scheme just wish I would take the time to attempt it. Cannot wait to see some inflight shots.

I finally started my c/u build: JOE OTT 27" MUSTANG.

Bob


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 17th, 2018 at 1:30am
Great work on the struts and Landing gear! It all works together to make the whole construction stand out. Well done  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Dec 17th, 2018 at 4:35am
Dan, you mentioned something that triggered a memory. My Dad was a State Highway Patrolmen here in Ohio. I remember getting up and going into the kitchen and finding a Guillow's Spad sitting on the table painted in all the correct colors. Had to have been 53 or 54. He did that a lot. That go me going on flying. Got my Private license before I graduated from High School. Neat.

I love your Roland. Wish the Lozeng tissue could be purchased. Very nice build.

Mark

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 17th, 2018 at 8:08am

Quote:
Now I just hope it flies!

Dan - very nice work on this airplane. Great detail and that lozenge pattern, wow all I can say is WOW! The plane will fly but with that short nose moment balance will be the difference in flying and flying very well.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 17th, 2018 at 9:27am
That Roland is one fine piece of work! Nice job!!

Now, about these Ott builds...

I'm trying to stick to the plan as much as possible. Lesson one, the larger the Ott model, the easier the build will be. I'm doing the Me109 as a Peanut and a 13" span is a lot different from the plan 22" span!

Then there are the unknowns in the plan. For example, the tail feathers. Are the spars and ribs flush with the surface or are they more three dimensional? The plan indicates that the ribs are put in first and then the spar added, that being the opposite of what we normally do. I decided to stick with today's method. I ended up with a "two dimensional" stab and a "three dimensional" rudder.

Then there is the issue of the plan showing one thing and the actual build being different. For example, the plan shows the nose profile as the typical Me109 sloping snout. But the build doesn't allow for the snout and ends up more like a P-39 look. I added a little wood to make the profile more like the plan.

One other thing...the fuselage formers are 1/32. Cutting stringer notches has always been a chore for me because of the issue of splitting the wood. This time I tried something different. First, I eyeballed the former notch marks and adjusted them as needed. As I mentioned earlier, the plan notch marks were quite accurate and needed only a little modification. The idea came to mind of using my Dremel to cut out the notches and so I used one of the cutting wheels, and using a very light touch, found that I could cut out the notches quicker and without any possibility of splitting the former.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 17th, 2018 at 4:57pm
alf, I think you are correct re: the size of the OTT airplane especially for my large club fingers. I am enjoying your build.

I have fallen in LOVE with this magna board, my only complaint! I NEED TO GET MORE Magnets.

The second side is down now to dry for the P-51.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:27pm
That board looks so cool.  I may need to ask Santa for a little something...hmm... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I was also very worried about the nose on the Roland...especially since I actually moved the wing forward to make it more scale which essentially made the darn nose even shorter and the tails dang longer!!!!  However, I did not put ANY ballast on this guy (nose or tail) and it seems to fly ok in the initial test hops found here for your viewing pleasure! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6vosbJ1A2E&t=19s

Too much fun.  And now, onto that Whitman plane...
Cheers to all and great work,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 18th, 2018 at 8:19am

Quote:
I have fallen in LOVE with this magna board, my only complaint! I NEED TO GET MORE Magnets

I have used the magnets as you do and have switched to a long piece of straight basswood for the alignment of the long pieces of longerons and leading and trailing edges. I use a couple of big magnets to hold it in place and a few small magnets inside the longerons to keep it tight to the basswood until a few uprights are in place. This keeps the extra magnets from finding each other. Here's a link to my Interstate Cadet fuselage framing.
Interstate Cadet: http://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1522421824/0#0
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 18th, 2018 at 8:46am
Thanks for the Roland video! Excellent flight results for such a small size!

The Me109 build continues slowly as I try to figure out how best to attach the wing. It did not help one bit to find out that the two wing panels in the plan were not the same size...just off enough to matter but not so much as to be noticed. One root rib was about 8% larger than the other. No worries, plenty of balsa to make another!

Ott seems to have designed a positive angle of incidence for the wing and this resulted in the back part of the wing extending below the bottom of the fuselage. How do the bottom stringers marry up to this? I suppose this is where imagination takes over!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Dec 18th, 2018 at 9:13am

93rdLiberator wrote on Dec 17th, 2018 at 11:27pm:
That board looks so cool.  I may need to ask Santa for a little something...hmm... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I was also very worried about the nose on the Roland...especially since I actually moved the wing forward to make it more scale which essentially made the darn nose even shorter and the tails dang longer!!!!  However, I did not put ANY ballast on this guy (nose or tail) and it seems to fly ok in the initial test hops found here for your viewing pleasure! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6vosbJ1A2E&t=19s

Too much fun.  And now, onto that Whitman plane...
Cheers to all and great work,
Dan


Nice flights Dan - especially the Roland!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 18th, 2018 at 10:00am
Great flights on both planes Dan. When you take them home undamaged, it is always a great day!
Christmas stuff has been keeping me away from the build and I spend a lot of time writing up my lessons for Sundays. Nevertheless, I did sneak a few minutes in here and there. I have always thought about ways of doing cockpit combings on small models without adding a ton of weight. I tried some moldable foam, but it won't mold small enough. I tried the party string in a can, but it isn't consistent, and then there are the oils. I have used styrofoam, but it is a lot of work. This time I tried tissue paper. I rolled a damp piece of black tissue about 3/4" x 6" and then I twisted it tightly. I made a form from styrofoam to bend it around to dry. While on the form, I painted the outside with a bit of thinned glue. It dried flat, so I dampened it just a bit and formed it on a small cylinder, then glued it onto the cockpit while still damp. Looks OK, and not too heavy.

ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 19th, 2018 at 2:14pm
Dan, WOW!

Ian, that is one idea ive never thought of.

I did not get much done with baking 331 cookies for staff at the apartment and center who take care of our mother. All ive done is make a sanding stick that works really good.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 19th, 2018 at 3:32pm
Thank You Bob for thinking about and taking care of the people who work with our Seniors - an underappreciated group of overworked people, at least here in Canada.
  As we approach Christmas, I would like to encourage anyone if possible, to take an afternoon and go visit the people in a senior's center. You wouln't believe how many have either no family, or family that doesn't show up at this time of year. They love visitors. A couple of people we know are going both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to do some caroling.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 19th, 2018 at 4:14pm
Bob...ditto what Ian said! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Ian...that tissue "Papermache" cockpit combing is a great idea.  Looks good too! Well done!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:02pm
Agreed!  I like to go chat with folks at the senior centers.  They have lots of good stories and tend to appreciate things like free flight models!

My son and I went out again today and had some trimming success.  A perfect day without a breath of air!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 19th, 2018 at 8:47pm
WOW! Nice flying area Dan.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 19th, 2018 at 9:40pm
I have run into a problem with the Ott instructions, they do not really show how the stringers attach around the rear of the empannage at the stab/rudder area.

Here are a couple of shots of the plan and my fuselage.

I need some help, my brain has not been able to figure out how to accomplish this.




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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 19th, 2018 at 10:28pm
Looks like you nailed it, Bob.  These things look like they need a bit of artistic license and you've got that!

That flying site is new to me because all the school yards are taken over by soccer fields or  fenced in for baseball.  Ugh.  My only issue will be if I ever do build anything that REALLY flies, it could end up heading north on I-5!  ::)

Cheers,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 20th, 2018 at 9:07am
The Ott plans for the P-51 are much more detailed than for the Me-109. But some pesky details like the stringer problem that was mentioned leaves us to our imagination. The P-51 plan did answer one of my questions about how the stab and rudder are built. The plan clearly shows that the ribs and spar overlap each other, making a "three dimensional" surface.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 20th, 2018 at 12:54pm
Dan, I am winging it  :D on how to attach the stringers with the stab in place. :o

Alf, I think that the plans are using some lost techniques that I am trying to learn as I go. I still have not figured out how to attach the wings to the fuselage and i have built this P-51 before, but did not get any further than having a fuse, wings, stab, and a rudder all waiting to attach. :-X But those no linger exist :'(

ADDENDUM:

After posting the above I started lining up stringers in several locations at different angles and came up with the photos show now.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 21st, 2018 at 6:25am

bigrip74 wrote on Dec 20th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
I still have not figured out how to attach the wings to the fuselage


For the 109, I decided to attach each wing panel to the side of the fuselage while maintaining the wing angle of incidence. To do this, I made another root wing rib from 1/32 sheet and fitted it inside the fuselage formers to keep it flush. This rib was slightly larger than the wing root rib to allow for adjustment and ease of tissue attachment. I did not have any wing spars to extend into the fuselage as does your plan.


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 21st, 2018 at 10:29am
Alf, thanks for the great idea. I will do the same and hopefully ill finish an Ott plan this time.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 12:17pm
Update for the Ott Me-109. The plan isn't very accurate at times but given that Ott made it early in WW2 when accurate data wasn't easy to come by, I can live with it. Made a couple of minor changes such as the wing mounting and front canopy details.

There are a gazillion paint schemes for the E model and I went with an early 1940 version. No paint, just tissue color. The grey isn't dark enough, all of my grey tissue is pretty light in color.

Next are the panel lines, wing attachment, and a final clean-up. As is, the model weighs 13 grams.
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 1:46pm
Very sharp AK - nice work!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 2:22pm
Nice looking model, Alf!  You've chosen the aircraft of Oblt. Franz von Werra...in case you don't already know...a very interesting individual.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 22nd, 2018 at 5:05pm
der Davongekommenere

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:03am
...berühmte flugzeuge...berühmte Flieger....

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 10:25pm
Pretty much done. Pulled a spinner but its size makes it difficult to fit over the prop. I'll leave it off while I look for some soft ground for a few tosses!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Huey v77 on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:25pm
Not bad AK, for a Bus Driver. Merry Christmas!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 23rd, 2018 at 11:32pm
Looking good AlphaKilo!
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 24th, 2018 at 12:48am
Su-Weet!!

That will fly like a bandit...

Merry Christmas!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 24th, 2018 at 8:17am
Thanks everyone!

I've been hooked on the Battle of Britain story for as long as I can remember. Kerak referred to a Me-109 pilot by the name of von Werra. He was the subject of a book and movie many years ago that told the story of how, having been shot down over England and sent to a Canadian POW camp, he escaped and eventually made his way back to Germany. Later, he was killed when his Me-109 crashed after the engine failed.

I spent four years in England flying A-10s, and never tired of flying over the same areas where the WW2 battles took place. Many of the WW2 airfields can still be recognized from the air and the sheer number of them is hard to believe.

I have an old Guillows Me-109 kit waiting to be built. Can't remember when I bought it, but it cost $1.75 so I imagine it was some time ago! They still make the kit but want about ten times as much for it!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 24th, 2018 at 8:34am
She's a real beauty, Alf...especially that "splinter" camo...well executed.

I had an old friend who made his last flight out of Kimbolton in a B-17...that's an airfield that's all but gone...have to look hard to find traces of it's runways now.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Dec 24th, 2018 at 8:48am
AK - Your skills are definitely on display and a really terrific model. Well done.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 24th, 2018 at 10:40am
Merry Christmas to one and all!! It has been a most enjoyable year, many thanks for your camaraderie!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 24th, 2018 at 2:12pm
AK...you've done it again!!! Well Done! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Merry Christmas to Y'all! [smiley=engel017.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Craig 3 on Dec 24th, 2018 at 3:34pm
AK, That's a beautiful build! I love the history and scheme!

Merry Christmas to all! May your stockings be stuffed with contest balsa and all your new socks be wrapped in Esaki!
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Dec 24th, 2018 at 5:29pm
Merry Christmas, Boys!!!  You're all special to me!  Thank you, everyone!

Craig...love that word "promulgated!"  That makes it OFFICIAL.  Can't tell you how many times I've seen that word before...ALWAYS in a military context.  ;D ;D ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 26th, 2018 at 5:15pm
Man we had a great Christmas and now we are still off and partying with balsa!  I've decided to start on my Whitman build and get away from military for a change.  It's an airplane my dad flew back in the '50s.  We have an 8mm movie of him somewhere buzzing a field! 

It's the Bellanca Cruisemaster!

Should be fun. 

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 28th, 2018 at 12:10am
Tonight I got the tails and one fuse side built up.  I am making a true wing saddle which is not on the plan and the rudder outline is 2x1/32nd laminated.  The cross pieces on the stab are (some of them) 1/32x1/16th.  Hopefully this will save a tad of weight. 

We'll see how far I get tomorrow!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 29th, 2018 at 12:22am
Got the fuselage basically done.  I'll work on the windows, final contour sanding, the cowling and then cover it tomorrow.  Then...on to the wings!  A quick build so far...
Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:33am
Fuselage looks great!  Can't wait to see more progress!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 29th, 2018 at 12:31pm
I am slowly continuing with the Jimmie Allen Fokker Triplane peanut. Single side covered and sprayed with Krylon. Total weight so far is under 5 grams. Still to do: noseblock, struts, landing gear, wheels. I left the portion of the fuselage uncovered where I will put the middle wing. I made a center section for it to glue to the fuselage to get the dihedral right at that point. It is still pinned to the board. I left the pieces pinned in place for 2 days to let the paint fully set so as to try to prevent warps.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:36pm
Nice, Ian!  Looks strong (enough!), light and great in red.  No warps that I can see either.  I really want to see a video of that sucker flying.  My Holy Grail is a tripe.

Here is a bit more on the fuselage of the Bellanca.  I hope to get the nose plug done, cover it and then start on the wing today!  We'll see...a honey-do list (arm in the background) as well... ::)

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 29th, 2018 at 9:15pm
Ian, the D7 looks good. I will watch you attach those wings and hopefully Ill learn something.

Dan, I like the Bellanca it is on the top of my to do list.

Some updates on  the P-51.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 30th, 2018 at 12:11am
BOB!

That 'Stang looks the bee's knees.  Really neat looking framing and true to the plan.  I really like it!

I almost got as far as I wanted to today.  Fuselage is mostly covered and decorated, no windows in yet but nose block is ready and even the tails are on!  Those will, I hope, help with wing alignment.  So tomorrow I'll add the windows, put on the stab plates and start those wings! 

DANG...a wrinkle I didn't notice.  More work! :P

Fun build so far and a GREAT cook up!  Lots of really nice machines in the works...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Dec 30th, 2018 at 9:30am
Dan, Looking Good. Red Rules! About the wrinkles - wrinkles add character and make things unique. I worked hard for mine.

Good start on that P-51 Bob

ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Dec 30th, 2018 at 5:04pm
Happy holidays guys. Hope all are well.
Cleaning up my building board after my daughters cats just tore up my Ace Moth >:(
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 30th, 2018 at 9:18pm
Cats can be really trying...mine just likes to sit with me while I build.  He's USUALLY pretty good!  :D

Here are some shots of the bare bones wings.  They need some sanding and fitting then covering.  I may get this guy finished tomorrow in time for some nice weather and test glides!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 30th, 2018 at 10:30pm
Nice cracked rib wing.  Looks good! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Dec 31st, 2018 at 4:35pm
Nice work, Dan! Wing ribs look super!! With that short nose, I hope it isn't too much to balance.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Dec 31st, 2018 at 9:54pm
Thanks, Folks!  It's ALMOST done!  I need to make the front windshield and the tail rigging.  As is, it's 10 grams which kind of surprised me a bit...a nice surprise.  Yup...the nose is short, but we'll see how it goes.  The Roland's nose was even shorter and I still need to remove MORE cowling!  We'll keep you informed.

Anyway, here she is almost done by the end of 2018.

Happy New Year!
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Dec 31st, 2018 at 10:38pm
Dan, great looking Bellanca and as Tom stated nice crack rib wing.

Now send some of your enthusiasm :D my way I lost some at Christmas interlude. ::)

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jan 1st, 2019 at 6:04pm
Looks great Dan
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 2nd, 2019 at 5:40pm
Thanks, Guys!  I got the Whitman Bellanca done and tried it a bit today at the only flying field left near by...I was just kicked out of the last place I found yesterday...I miss that place as the long grass saved my bacon time and time again.  Oh, well.

The Cruisemaster flew well and is very promising!  I got it up to only 500 turns on some 1/8th a little less than twice hook to peg distance.  Needs some more fiddling but was not destroyed and looks really neat in the air.  Sorry for no video but my flying buddy was on a date.  Man...he knows his priorities!   ;)

It's cool to think this plan is an old design from the late 40's early 50's.  Ace sure made a flyable model in this Bellanca!  Thanks to the folks who started this cook-up.  A big thumbs up from me!  :D ;D

Fun times and more soon...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 2nd, 2019 at 10:46pm
These Whitman plans are a blast and sort of addictive AND build fast!  Not to mention, based on the Bellanca, they seem to fly too.  So, against my better judgement, I'm making another Whitman: The P-63 King Cobra.  If it turns out like the Bellanca, I'll be pleased.  Should be fun out and indoors if I can find an indoor site in the coming weeks.

Wish me luck!
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 3rd, 2019 at 5:25pm
Dan, I have that plan ,but each time I think maybe this time that canopy keeps bothering me. So never started it, I will watch your build for inspiration.,

Well the holidays are over now and I found my passion to start building again.

The method used by Joe Ott for the attachment of the stab had me wrapped up in knots, but I finally started.

This is my first time to attach a covered stab to an uncovered fuselage. I will see if covering the fuselage now will be a monster. The stringers are attached over the stab then the fuselage is covered with tissue.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 3rd, 2019 at 8:10pm
I found this kitchen organizer at JC PENNEY and it looked like it would be perfect for finally organizing my work bench.


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Jan 4th, 2019 at 3:46pm
F6F Hellcat
Finally home from an extended family trip to help my brother in law. All is well and am home to stay. Finished the Hellcat today with the airbrushed tissue markings and almost completed the canopy but the small circular part on the front kept falling off so that's the way it goes. Glad this is over as there were too many interruptions and lost my mojo a couple of times. Oh yes, made a mess of the front cowl and have it in my workshop to bore it back out with a 1" forstner bit. Needs to warm up a bit before that however.

I'm moving on to my Marcoux Bromberg project since this was a commitment and up to now an unkept commitment and we all know what a commitment without follow thru is so will be moving to the display section soon.
Mike

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 4th, 2019 at 4:40pm
That looks super and will likely be an amazing flyer.  My Guillow's 18 inch Hellcat and Comet 18 inch Wildcat are among the best models I've got.  Great flyers!

Good luck...Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 4th, 2019 at 5:42pm
Well life has gotten in the way of building and now I'm going to be nursing my wife who fell while helping her mother and fractured her right humerus and shoulder joint and dislocated her arm.  Not sure what will come next...due to insurance she's coming back home after 3 weeks dealing with hospitals and doctors in Texas and our insurance policy here in WA. I hope to get to the "Jack" J2M3 soon.
Sky9pilot

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 4th, 2019 at 7:33pm
Tom, I feel for your wife and her pain also for your extra stress now.

Mike the F6F looks really good. I am at the moment looking a Skyleada F6F plan for what looks like a 16" dime scale in Toms words and Comets, and Guillows. Too many decisions. Maybe a coin toss will help, but I will have your build to help out.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jan 4th, 2019 at 11:06pm
Sorry to hear about your wife, Tom...best wishes for a complete and speedy recovery.  Wish I knew how to give you some help...more than words, that is.  This too shall pass...for both of you.  :-/

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 5th, 2019 at 1:00am
Ouch, Tom...I trust all will go well.  Take your time and breath!

I seem to have joined the magnet revolution except that I am cheap and bought some magnets and a sheet of steel at my local Lowe's.  So far, I must say, I love it.  A small learning curve but I got the tails and wing together on the P-63.  I'm amazed at the holding power of the magnets...the wood doesn't budge.  I think I'm sold. 

Tomorrow I'll see how much of the fuselage I can get done.  Back to teaching on Monday,.  Ahhh...the joys of work!

Cheers to all,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Jan 5th, 2019 at 7:28am
Tom - So sorry to hear about your wife's injuries. Just came through a whole series of issues with a family member here and in Florida. I know first hand how these problems can alter our life and plans. I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing the very best for your wife.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jan 6th, 2019 at 6:46pm
Tom,
Hope your wife heals quickly.
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 6th, 2019 at 7:32pm
A bit more on the P-63...wings and tails done, covered, paneled and "starred".  Maybe some fuselage work soon.

Cheers and thanks for looking!

Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:02pm
Dan, you are fast and the P-63 really looks good with those colors and detaling. Ive found that plan and plan on printing it on my next FedEx visit.

I have just doped the stab and wings for the F4F plus I finally made the canopy plug/mold.

The shavings are a mess, but will take care of them later when I have a pile of tissue on top. ;)

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:04pm
The rest of the canopy shots.

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 7th, 2019 at 12:26pm
Looks great, Bob.  Can't wait to see it in clear.  Vac or push form?

Cheers,
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 7th, 2019 at 1:40pm

93rdLiberator wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 12:26pm:
Looks great, Bob.  Can't wait to see it in clear.  Vac or push form?

Cheers,
Dan


Hopefully a vac canopy, if I am able to locate the home made forms. I packed up a lot of stuff in between visits to the hospital.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Jan 7th, 2019 at 2:22pm
Plug is looking good, almost like my Hellcat. Hopefully it is a bit bigger so it can be finished well. My Hellcat canopy was only 1 inch long.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 14th, 2019 at 12:02am
All,

Made some headway on the fuselage.  I don't think I've ever made such a straight fuselage before.  Magnets rule...

More soon,
Dan


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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jan 14th, 2019 at 12:21am
P63 looking good in those colours Dan.

I am getting back to the Fokker Triplane peanut. I spent some time pondering the struts and what to make them of. I really like bamboo, so I split a 10" bamboo skewer to about 1/16" thickness and then sanded it down to 1/32 inch and painted it black with a sharpie. The whole piece weighed .53 grams, so the struts weigh just over 0.1 gram each. They are much stronger than balsa, so I don't worry about them breaking, but the glue joints will have to be strengthened somehow.

  I ended up making a jig to hold the forward struts in place and glued them to the fuselage. Then I glued on the top wing with an alignment jig piece. But the best laid plans of mice and men 'gang aft aglay', so the upper wing glue joint failed and I had to do it again. Then when that dried, I glued in the rear struts. I might use just a dab of epoxy at the critical joints.

  I'll use more bamboo for the landing gear struts as well. I also made a noseblock out of cross-grained 1/16" balsa pieces and painted them with a red sharpie.

ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jan 14th, 2019 at 8:41pm
Looks great Ian
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 14th, 2019 at 8:45pm
Dan, I agree that magnets rule. Did you print those stars onto the tissue covering?

Ian, the jig did do its job.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 15th, 2019 at 12:12pm
Thanks, All...

Bob:  YOU are the reason I gave the metal sheet a try.  I'm really glad I did.

I printed those on white tissue and glue-sticked them on!  I like the green with the Russian markings... ::)

More tonight...I hope.
Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 15th, 2019 at 2:45pm
Ian, Tom and Dan's posts with that metal board made me want to try one out and I am so happy with it. Just don't know what took me so long to finally pull the trigger.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jan 15th, 2019 at 3:42pm
I made a small metal board and liked useing it. I bought the mega board from easy build models. Could have made one but been busy working figer I owed myself a new tool. :)
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 18th, 2019 at 11:15pm
All,

I got the fuselage basically framed up...now I need to work on the canopy/cockpit area.  Then it's only covering and assembly soon!

Cheers and happy weekend,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jan 19th, 2019 at 10:38am
Very nice, Dan!  Are you gonna pull a canopy...or try the ancient built-up method?  Personally, I like to play with "sticks n' stuff," so the old way is my way...but a pulled canopy really speeds things up...and can ease a lot of aggravation.  ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jan 19th, 2019 at 11:07am
Coming along nicely, Dan. 90% done, 90% to go, or at least that is how it feels to me with mine.

Jimmy Allen Fokker Triplane peanut getting closer. Each lower wing, and each strut had to be glued in separately and allowed to dry before moving on to the next one. All struts are bamboo. The interplane struts were made in 4 pieces rather than the 2, and I changed the attachment points from the plan. Otherwise, they would run through the tissue on the middle wing. It is only a stand-off scale after all. And on the tail, I should put ''Du Doch Ja, Bitte" instead of "Du Doch Nicht" meaning 'Go ahead and do it, please', rather than 'Oh no you don't!'

ian
Wing_and_Landing_Gear_done.jpg (61 KB | 15 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Jan 19th, 2019 at 11:28am
Tun Sie doch, Bitte!!...DO IT, PLEASE!! aber...Udet was being familiar...as though talking to a close friend. ;D ;D ;D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 19th, 2019 at 11:29am
Dan, beautiful tissue work.

Ian, all of those wings still scare even after the German lesson.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 19th, 2019 at 5:43pm
I agree, Bob.  Ian is doing great.  I really want to see that one in the air after an Englander.

I think I got my balsa mold sort of done for the canopy.  I darkened in the areas of "glass" so I can visualize how I hope it will look.  Looks pretty Kingcobra-ish to me.

More later!

Dan
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 19th, 2019 at 6:02pm
Looks great Dan...but you'll want to seal that black or it will come off on the warm plastic when you mold the canopy!!!  Don't ask how I know about this!!! :-/ :'( :P

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 19th, 2019 at 9:36pm
Yup...I've done that too!  Makes you humble.   ;)

Tonight I'll add some top coat and maybe try a vacform but we'll see.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 20th, 2019 at 6:40pm
Hi All,

Forming the glass has proved difficult as the clear plastic I had sort of rolled up into a rubbery ball between my vacform plastic holders.  I think I need to find some more suitable plastic...

So, I just worked on the rest of the machine.  Got the fuselage covered and the general plan form assembled.  Seems to glide nicely with some clay in the nose with an all up weight so far of 6 grams.  Much more to do, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

Cheers,
Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 20th, 2019 at 8:25pm
I like the way that you formed your canopy block.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Jan 20th, 2019 at 9:27pm
6 grams covered and balanced!  That's outstanding - should be a great flyer.  Nice work!

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jan 20th, 2019 at 10:48pm
  Coming along nicely Dan. Great weight!!!

  I have been out watching the lunar eclipse tonight, but my camera is no good for low light pics without a tripod.

  All done now on the Tripe except for the prop. I used paper tubing for bushing the 3/4" wheels, as per the plans. The wheels are cross-laminated 1/32" balsa. Model has a 12" wingspan and other than the fuselage is only covered on one side. Weight without prop is 7.13 grams. My pilot is Dick Dastardly of "Wacky Races" and "Dastardly and Muttley in Their Flying Machines" cartoons from the late 1960's. Crosses are paper cut out of the plan and control markings are Sharpie.
  I am intending to carve a prop using the dimensions given on the plans. I tried a simple glide, and it wants to float, but there is not enough weight in the nose for a proper glide.

ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Jan 20th, 2019 at 10:57pm
The Tripe looks great Ian, and I love the pilot.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Jan 20th, 2019 at 10:59pm
Ian, I remember Dick Dastardly, must be getting oid :o

nice job! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Jan 20th, 2019 at 11:37pm
Dick Dastardly was the greatest...stop that pigeon.

I really like your little Tripe.  I bet it will fly great.  Looks nice and light!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 20th, 2019 at 11:39pm
You've got a feather there...should be a great flyer!!!

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Jan 21st, 2019 at 8:21am
What a great model - very nice work.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jan 23rd, 2019 at 7:06pm
I carved a 4 1/2 inch prop, painted it with watercolours and gave it quite a few coats of acrylic polish. The model needs perhaps just a touch more nose weight, but the glide is marvelous. When I put the prop clutch on, I'll try to take a few in-flight pics.

  Just an update. I finished the prop installation and added an 8" loop of 1/8" rubber. All up weight turned out at 10.15 grams.
ian
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by pb_guy on Jan 25th, 2019 at 5:27pm
I took the Triplane out to fly in our dead calm a few minutes ago. 150 winds. With the right and down thrust I had put in, it made tight right circles into a spiral dive. I took the noseblock off and cut out the bearing and glued it back in with no right thrust at all. I'll try it again when the glue dries and the weather cooperates.
ian

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Jan 27th, 2019 at 10:10am
Looks great Ian.
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Feb 18th, 2019 at 7:50pm
Flight videos!  Those will get us out of the winter doldrums.  A triplane in the air is hard to beat...I've never got one to actually fly for more than a few seconds  :'(

But...here is the P-63 all done except I think I'll put one more star on the sides.  I got the airscoop carved, wing fillets made, canopy smashed (don't look too close...fair amount of flak damage on that sucker) and exhausts added.  Even better, I took it out front and with a few hand winds it was beautiful!  I wish my camera man hadn't been studying.  Only issue is that as pictured with prop, shaft wire and test 1/8th rubber it's 12 grams...and it was only 8 before that!  It's a shame to add so much plastic whirling around up front.  Methinks I need to make a lighter wooden prop as it's also a tad nose heavy at this point.  Anyway...can't wait to really get it up in the air!!


Thanks for looking...Dan

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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:08pm
Very nice Dan - that ought to be a great flier.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on Feb 20th, 2019 at 9:50am
Ahhhh...the Kingcobra is out there lurking!  You've done it again, Dan...another flyer...another unique work of art! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by shipwreck on Feb 20th, 2019 at 5:29pm
Looks great Dan.
Paul

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Feb 20th, 2019 at 10:45pm
Ditto what the fellas have said! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Apr 19th, 2019 at 11:12am
While I continue to struggle with the Stinson, I'm taking a break by returning to the pre-war fighter prototype series, this time the XP-39 or Bell Model 4.

I'm using the Walt Mahoney peanut plan for the XFL-1 Airabonita. The two are reasonably close in appearance, I'll change a few things here and there. Planning on plug in gear right now.
Bellprotos.jpeg (21 KB | 9 )
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 20th, 2019 at 7:03pm
I will try to finish on this cookup, This is where I left off on the Joe Ott P-51

JO_P-51_001.JPG (189 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by New Builder on Apr 21st, 2019 at 7:08am
Great work so far. Looking forward to the finish line.
Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Apr 21st, 2019 at 10:30am
Bob the P-51 looks really good - nice clean woodwork and covering.  BTW, the Dallas clubs have found a new FF flying site in Hamilton TX, about two hours away from you.  They are planning a contest there 18-19 May.  I have a conflict on the 18th but may be able to make the second day.  Lots closer for you than Gainesville.

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 21st, 2019 at 12:21pm
I will see if I can get something built for the May contest.

My son was animal sitting for my brother while we went to Dallas for a funeral and the cat loved clawing the airplanes (9) and their tissue so he tossed them before I got back.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 21st, 2019 at 3:25pm
I think this is the plan Alfakilo is using for the P-39 prototype...
Tom
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Bell_XFL-1_Airabonita_Plan.pdf (103 KB | 25 )
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Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Apr 21st, 2019 at 7:24pm
That's it, Tom. To make it into the XP-39, I'll change the landing gear, add the fuselage side air scoops, change the tail and wingtip contours, and modify the canopy slightly.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 21st, 2019 at 8:02pm
That is smaller then I was thinking.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 21st, 2019 at 9:03pm
I have been looking at the Ace Whitman plan for his Bf109

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=11066

and wondering if I have time to build this a/c also.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on Apr 21st, 2019 at 9:52pm
The cookup is kinda open ended seeing that with my wife's injury I never got started. I hope to finish the Raiden.... so go for it!
Tom

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on Apr 21st, 2019 at 10:00pm
OK! Maybe I can get it done for the contest Mike mentioned for May.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on Apr 28th, 2019 at 8:42am
Here's the initial XP-39 prototype, peanut size and based on the Airabonita plan,

Paper mockups for canopy and fuselage air scoops. Plug in gear.

The intake for the turbo-supercharger is on the bottom of the fuselage.
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xp39_build_3.jpg (21 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by 93rdLiberator on Apr 28th, 2019 at 7:03pm
That should fly great if my P-63 is anything to go by.  Lots of room for rubber and a nice long nose.

Cool beans!

Dan

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by MKelly on Apr 30th, 2019 at 9:20pm
Looks nice AK!  I just picked up the book "Cobra!" - it has some good pictures of the prototype P-39 and lots of great history of Bell Aircraft.  I got it particularly for the coverage of the postwar racing P-63s - there's a peanut scale Tucker Special somewhere in my future...

Mike

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 1st, 2019 at 8:21am
I enjoyed researching the XP-39! For its time, the original was a real hot rod, but as things turned out, it was redesigned into something far less. There were at least three versions before Bell got to the design that we are all familiar with.

My model is based on the shorter fuselage, longer wingspan, taller canopy, smaller tail, multiple fuselage airscoops, and original landing gear retraction that set the prototype off from what became the production version.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on May 1st, 2019 at 11:02am
Alf, what material did you use for the canopy mold?

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 1st, 2019 at 11:42am

bigrip74 wrote on May 1st, 2019 at 11:02am:
Alf, what material did you use for the canopy mold?

Bob


This stuff! I know its relatively thick, but it works well on my vacuform. Got it at Hobby Lobby.

I've tried clear plastic plates from the Dollar store but they seem to pull too thin much of the time (vacuform or plug method).

I carved the mold out of balsa block and used corn starch to help it release.

canopy_plastic.jpg (5 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 1st, 2019 at 12:57pm
Here's the canopy and fuselage airscoops. Oil cooler intake on right side, supercharger intake on left side, radiator intake on left wing leading edge.
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xp39_build_7.jpg (35 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on May 1st, 2019 at 6:36pm
What is the material you're using to create the wing fillet...and under the intake scoops...looks like sheep skin.  :D ;D ;)  Good lookin' job, Alf. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I think a number of aircraft designs ran into power-plant issues in the late '30s...a lot of Allison-powered ac were counting on the delivery of an engine featuring a turbo-charger...didn't materialize.  And then the Brits began crying that the sky was falling after their encounters with Messershmitts...the need for armor plating and self-sealing fuel tanks, etc.  All that added weight really doomed a number of existing aircraft designs...including the Airacobra.  I may be mistaken...but I think one the first Allison-engined U.S. fighter designs to get that turbo-charger was the Lightning.  The interesting fact that I'm always amazed at is that Japanese combat aircraft sacrificed the very items that Brit advice was demanding!

Our power plants eventually caught up and surpassed our enemies. Even the Flying Fortress had turbos. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Nice job, Alf.

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm
The papered areas were done with card stock paper, a bit stiffer than regular printing paper. I covered these areas with light grey tissue paper to reduce the 'whiteness' of the card paper. Maybe a little overkill since I plan on doing a light airbrushing with a duraluminum acrylic.
VAL77702.jpg (38 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 13th, 2019 at 8:42am
Motor not installed but otherwise done. About 21 gms.

XP differences include radiator exhaust on top of left wing root, side scoops for oil cooler and turbo intakes, bottom air scoop for turbo, larger canopy, shorter fuselage, smaller tail, and longer wingspan.

Landing gear is plug in, doors are attached to gear struts.
xp39_build_8.jpg (24 KB | 12 )
xp39_build_9.jpg (14 KB | 9 )
xp39_build_10.jpg (25 KB | 14 )
xp39_build_11.jpg (16 KB | 11 )
xp39_build_12.jpg (37 KB | 12 )
xp39_build_13.jpg (42 KB | 7 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Kerak on May 13th, 2019 at 8:53am
Now that's an Airacobra...I'd know it anywhere!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Great job, Alf!  Love your attention to detail! Proof's in the pudding...and that's some fine plum pudding.  :D

Neal

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on May 13th, 2019 at 10:47am
Outstanding Alfa!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on May 13th, 2019 at 11:06am
WOW! is all that I can say, or maybe till we see those inflight photos.

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by neoflight on May 13th, 2019 at 6:53pm
What a beautiful job on the XP39 alfakilo! The all metal rendering is very smart indeed!
Neoflight

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by neoflight on May 14th, 2019 at 1:45pm
AK,
If I may ask, what is the indention in the upper medial left wing? Is this some sort of vent, exhaust or air intake?

Neo

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on May 14th, 2019 at 5:58pm

alfakilo wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 8:42am:
XP differences include radiator exhaust on top of left wing root, side scoops for oil cooler and turbo intakes, bottom air scoop for turbo, larger canopy, shorter fuselage, smaller tail, and longer wingspan.


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by alfakilo on May 14th, 2019 at 7:23pm

neoflight wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 1:45pm:
AK,
If I may ask, what is the indention in the upper medial left wing? Is this some sort of vent, exhaust or air intake?Neo


To add to Tom's post, these pics should explain:

Radiator_inlet.jpg (24 KB | 6 )
Radiator_exhaust.jpg (22 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by neoflight on May 14th, 2019 at 8:47pm
Thanks for the reply, alfakilo ;D Your photos explained things perfectly. I wonder if this created potential wing design problems.

Neo

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on May 15th, 2019 at 4:58pm
The Mitsubishi J2M3 Jack build has started.  Here's the printed fuselage side view taped together and then the first side started with Duco glue.  It takes a bit longer to set up but that makes for a more relaxing build.  I cut the uprights by the uprights for the first side.  Ran out of plastic wrap so a trip to the dollar store is due.  I guess two years for one roll is pretty cost effective! :D ;D

Tom
j2m3_fuse_plan.jpg (83 KB | 8 )
j2m3_fuse_side1.jpg (107 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on May 15th, 2019 at 5:18pm
I see that you are not using magnets. Is there another build on the magna board?

Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by Sky9pilot on May 15th, 2019 at 7:27pm
It's called being lazy...I have stuff piled on the magnet board.   :-[ ::) ;D

I'm thinking about doing an embryo side build on the magnet board.  I posted the idea in the embryo board. 

I did manage to build the horizontal stab and the vertical stab. And decided to spritz the fuselage side because the top and bottom keels take a pretty sharp bend towards the nose and I wanted to relieve the stress in them. 
Tom
horiz_vert_stabs_2.jpg (88 KB | 11 )

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by bigrip74 on May 15th, 2019 at 8:46pm
Either your wood is really good stuff or you are building clean. What are the grommets that I see on the T-pins?
Bob

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Fall Cookup Whitman/Ott &/or Peanut Scal
Post by neoflight on May 15th, 2019 at 10:51pm
That's a nice start, Tom. Is the ws 15"?  Do you plan to dress it, as many have, in the style of Lt. Aoki of the 352nd Naval Kokutai or is there another livery in mind? Not many paint schemes of the Raiden to choose from. Here's one that's colourful. The prototype. I know yours will be well done and looking forward to it.