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How to fly model airplanes >> Tether/Swing Flying Models >> Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
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Message started by DAVE Q on Jul 20th, 2018 at 2:44pm

Title: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 20th, 2018 at 2:44pm
Attached plans are updated to the point to where I am going to start cut parts and assemble airplane.
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=corsair_7-20-18.pdf (51 KB | 47 )

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 20th, 2018 at 6:30pm
Looks good Dave thanks for sharing.
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 21st, 2018 at 5:47pm
How's the build going Dave? We're you able to start cutting it out?
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 21st, 2018 at 6:52pm

shipwreck wrote on Jul 21st, 2018 at 5:47pm:
How's the build going Dave? We're you able to start cutting it out?
Paul


Paul,

All parts are cut out, and the nose and tail are together, literally in an hour and a half. But was unable to get to it today. I hopefully will get some pictures out and get the wing on tomorrow.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 8:46am
Cool can't wait to see. I am still not able to do much building yet but I do some. Left hand is still swollen but there is progress.
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 11:56am
Jigged up the tail, and glued it on. Also cut out some extra wing dihedral wedges out of foam board. So I could use 2 each for the inboard section, and 1 each for the outboard section, so I could glue up the wing all in one shot.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 11:59am
I am not a fan of airplane designs that capture the elevator upon construction. I like to paint the airplane before attaching control surfaces. I realized this when doing the plans, but also wanted to keep that Corsair tail look. I have a light coat of sealer on the horo stab and the elev. I am going to sand that, and use scotch tape for my hinges, and the paint. Will the paint stick to the scotch tape, I have no clue.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 12:07pm
Have the wings installed. Next step I am going to quesstimate a CG point, and fix the elevator in place. And rig it for a single line tether flyer. One, I guess this will tell me if it flys, and two, if I attach the line to the side of the fuselage, it should tell me the CL of the bellcrank. I guess.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 2:23pm
Looking good [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Jul 22nd, 2018 at 3:37pm
Don't forget the offset of the rudder to keep the nose pointed to the outside of the circle and keep the lines tight!  Looking very good!
Tom

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 4:27pm
Taped the elevator in neutral, so it could not move. Rigged on some nose weight, to where it balanced at the tips. Left the airplane hang down from where I held it at the tip, so the plane hung level. Inserted a piece of wire at that point, and taped it slightly aft of that point on the wingtip. I don't know if I am going to use this bellcrank or not. I think I am just going to cut one out of plywood. I probably bought this bellcrank around 1978.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 4:32pm
And it flies. Now move onto the control horn and linkage.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 5:37pm
That is sweet Dave
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 7:06pm
Outstanding...Al would be proud!!! I'm sure He's saying, "Way to go Dave!" as he looked down on you!!!
Tom

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 27th, 2018 at 1:31pm

DAVE Q wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 4:32pm:
And it flies. Now move onto the control horn and linkage.

Hows it coming along Dave?
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 27th, 2018 at 3:24pm

shipwreck wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 1:31pm:

DAVE Q wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 4:32pm:
And it flies. Now move onto the control horn and linkage.

Hows it coming along Dave?
Paul


Paul, hoping to get some time this weekend to get back on her.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 28th, 2018 at 5:34pm
I here ya Dave,
My hand is slowly getting better but can not hold down balsa wood to cut it. Also back to working longer days ya know life stuff....lol
Hope you get some time interested in seeing it when your done.
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jul 29th, 2018 at 5:08pm
Paul, hope your hand gets better soon.

Installed the control horn on the elevator, and the lead out guide on the wingtip. Installed an extra large mounting block for the bellcrank, for room for adjustments. In reality, it could probably be half that size. Decided to put landing gear on it, because it just looks cool when flying. Also thinking of putting gear doors and bombs on it. Decals, wheels, bellcrank, leadouts, and test flights next.

Found this way cool picture at a flea market this weekend, of the Denny Drone. The sign on the left side of the photo, under the rt wingtip of the airplane says. (High school graduates, now a radio career is possible). The armband on the guy says, (recruiting service). The transmitter is right below the prop. The parachute door is open on the plane. Looks like it was in a car dealership. Dodge and Plymouth signs are in the window. Wonder what kind of car that is at the far left of the picture? I imagine if I knew the year make of that car, it would tell if it was before or after the war. Just thought it was a really fun part of history for a whopping $1.00. The sign on the front of the platform says, (U.S. Army Recruiting Station). When was the Air Force formed?
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by shipwreck on Jul 29th, 2018 at 10:07pm
Thanks Dave!
Plane is looking good! That is a cool picture from what I can see. Not sure on the year.
Paul

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:02pm
Just thought I would re post these pictures so they are a part of this post.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:23pm
Finally had a chance to get controls on it. Had an old handle with string already on it already, so I rigged it up. Gave it a test flight. Learned a lot, but none of what I wanted to learn. If your rt handed, and use the rt arm to hold the pole, and the lt hand to work the controls, that does not work. If you use your lt (weaker) arm, to hold the pole, and your rt hand to work the controls, it feels a lot better. But now your putting all your steam to keep it flying thru your weaker arm. When I fly single line tether, I can switch between arms. I really do not know how to put my flight experience into words. Basically, I was not impressed. I enjoyed it much better as a single line tether. Up control really did not do anything. And I could see the elevator pointing up. Maybe I was not following thru with the pole correctly. Maybe the airplane needs to be lighter. Maybe the lines need to be shorter, but then you need to spin faster. If the lines were longer, now I am going to need more steam. I do wish I had a nice fishing pole, instead of a 6" piece of bamboo. I'm going to sleep on it, and see if any ideas come up. But to be honest, at this point, I enjoyed it as a single line tether much more.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 10th, 2018 at 12:17pm
I think you've discovered why Al used a single line for swing flying and then he experimented with the flight pattern from there.  I've never done any swing flying and I'm definitely going to have to give it a try.  Sold all my fishing poles in my move to TX and so I'll have to find a "Blue Light" special fishing pole to experiment with! :D ;)

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:50am
Jackpot. Stopped in a flea market this morning, and I could not believe it. It's about a foot longer than the bamboo pole I have, and easily half the weight. Best part of it, $3.00. Also, I have a plan B to come for the Corsair.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:07pm
Well done Dave!!! 
I look forward to pics of them at work, the pole and Corsair... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:38pm
Tried the new fishing pole with 2 of my single line tethers. To my surprise, it was almost exactly as long as the bamboo pole I had. Kind of was hoping it was about a foot longer. It is though, easily half the weight. Worked just great with the single line tethers. Takes less steam to keep things flying.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 11th, 2018 at 2:06pm
Once I had the new thinner line hooked up to the new fishing pole. I moved onto plan B for the Corsair. Plan B was, to hook up the line attached to the end of the pole, to the down elevator.  The down side remains a fixed length. Then I ran an independent line from the up elevator back, and down the eyelets of the pole. And tied a loop in the end of the line. And hooked the loop around my right hand fore finger. The idea is to relax your finger to let the plane go down. And bring it in for up elevator. The idea kind of works. You can hold the pole with 2 hands now, if you want. And also, you can stop spinning and hold neutral elev, and spin the pole behind you. And now, because the pole is so much easier to handle this way, you can feed in up elev, and easily follow thru with the pole, and do a large loop. Come out of the loop, relax your finger a bit, and level out. It takes a lot of steam to do all this. Speed is also part of making the elevator work better, DUH. I used solid sheets to build this Corsair, because this is what the attached pictures show. I am starting to wonder, if a lighter plane would work better. Like a No Cal design, with an enlarged elev. It would take a lot less steam to keep it going. I'm going to need a friend for pictures on this one Tom. It takes all the steam this old man has to keep this one doing maneuvers. I will say this so far, single line tether is much easier. Plan C to come.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 11th, 2018 at 2:06pm
I wish I'd kept my fly fishing pole.  It was long and very flexible.  Best of luck with the new pole.
Tom

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Aug 11th, 2018 at 2:11pm

Sky9pilot wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
I wish I'd kept my fly fishing pole.  It was long and very flexible.  Best of luck with the new pole.
Tom


The bamboo pole and this new fishing rod is about 6 1/2 feet long. I do wish it was longer.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Aug 11th, 2018 at 2:15pm
My fly pole was two piece about 10ft long!  I think it might have worked well for light models.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Oct 27th, 2018 at 12:37pm
Well, sorry to say, (PLAN C) FAILED. Plan (C), was to put much larger elevators on it. I used double layers of card stock just for a test. Same results as before, up elevator just puts the plane in a nose high attitude, and does not climb at all. I have known these results for some time now, but was hoping something else would come to me, nothing has. I am not sad that I failed, I am sad that the idea failed. I just don't understand how someone printed the examples shown earlier, of this idea, and I can't get it to work. With the length of the lines, and the size of the plane. I don't see in any way how you can hold the pole in your left arm, and use the control in the right. Coordination alone is a major issue. I just guessed at the size of the plane compared to what I already have been flying. Maybe if the plane was half the size and weight. And the lines were half as long, maybe this would help with more power. And make this idea work. Sorry to say, but I think I am going to convert this plane back to single line control, finish it up, and enjoy it that way. Well I guess this post did have one positive. I learned what NOT to do in tether flying. I think taking everything to half scale as what I did, is my only guess at this time, to make this idea work.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Oct 27th, 2018 at 3:35pm
Sorry to hear plan "C" failed.  I think speed might be your problem.  I'm not sure how that would be overcome...except as you say smaller model, but I'd thought that your solution would have worked.  As Alexander Grahm Bell said,"...found another way how not to make a lightbulb!"  Failure is always the best teacher.  Best of luck with the next plan!
Tom

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by pb_guy on Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:36pm
Is it possible that the model is too nose-heavy? The bellcrank pivot should be fairly close to the balance point?
ian

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Oct 28th, 2018 at 1:57am

pb_guy wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:36pm:
Is it possible that the model is too nose-heavy? The bellcrank pivot should be fairly close to the balance point?
ian


ian, thank you for your comment, I appreciate it. Please do not take these comments as facts, because I do not know what the problem is. The whole reason I tested this as a single line flyer, is that, it gave me the CG, nose weight, and location for the bellcrank, from a model that I could see that it actually flew. The only technical thing about tether flying is the nose weight. Not enough weight, and the plane climbs constantly to a stall, with only the slightest amount of speed. When the weight is right, slow speed of course the model drops. Average speed the model maintains level flight, and higher speed the plane slowly climbs. And if you really pour on the steam, you can work the plane into wing overs, and from there, into loops. At this time, you can only maintain loops for a short amount of time (15 secs?), because it takes a lot of effort. Getting it out of a loop, and back into normal flight, sometimes is a little tricky. I achieved this with my single line test. So, this is all I have to go from. After saying that, using two hands instead of one, really slows you down, and is much more difficult to turn as fast. And I guess after saying that, trying to use two hands, at this scale, I am just not getting up enough steam. I guess? And after realizing all that, this is starting to motivate me to do a half scale test. This post may pick back up another day.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Dec 8th, 2018 at 1:50pm
Well, sorry to say, the control line Corsair is gone. I stripped the control horn off it, and glued the elevator. Finished it up, and took some pictures. I placed the bombs outboard of the landing gear just for a more fun visual while flying. You can barely see the fins in the picture, that I put on the rear of the bombs. But, between the bombs, the landing gear doors, and the landing gear added for detail. I think the drag on this one is thru the roof. You can actually hear it going thru the air. Guess I learned a lot of what not to do's, in tether flying with this one.
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Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Dec 8th, 2018 at 9:22pm
If you've had some fun experimenting with all the different aspects of this build and flight...then you've won!!! After all, that's what this hobby is all about!  I love the look and the flying shot is great.  Looking forward to the next model.

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by DAVE Q on Jan 24th, 2019 at 6:18pm
The Corsair u-control saga continues. I found this article in the 1953 Jan issue of Model Airplane News. I just can't understand what went wrong.

#1, highlighted in the red cloud on page #1, the model shown is more or less the exact size of the Corsair I made.

#2, Highlighted in yellow on page #1, It talks about Monogram models, (hellcats, Corsairs, or Boeing Keydets) being used. I don't understand this comment at all. I thought Monogram models are all plastic.

#3, also on page #1, it references Jim Walkers whip control article. This is the article shown earlier in this post.

#4, the plan page, no scale is shown. I wonder if they consider this to be full scale. This would be about 50% of what the Corsair I built was. Remember the downsizing idea of hopefully getting this to work.

#5, highlighted on the plan page, it tells you how to size the length of your lines. This is exactly what I do.

#6, and then finally on the last page (36). It talks about a single line attachment, for normal tether flying (why). These old articles sure do leave a lot to the imagination.

It just bugs the heck out of me why this idea did not work. And these articles all say, this is all you have to do. Maybe it's me, remembering my old .35 control line days with that plane going wherever you pointed it, tearing up the sky. It's bugging me now to build this plane, at the scale shown on the plan. Possibly the saga continues.
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=1.pdf (725 KB | 24 )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=PLAN.pdf (444 KB | 18 )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=35.pdf (665 KB | 17 )
https://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=36.pdf (831 KB | 18 )

Title: Re: Corsair Swing Flyer with u-control
Post by Sky9pilot on Jan 25th, 2019 at 7:09pm
Monogram Speedee bilt models were wood kits check out this link: Click Here
Tom
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