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P38 -- The Real Deal (Read 2418 times)
Reply #55 - May 15th, 2019 at 5:47pm

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Thanks for the response, Tom....  In my own opinion...there is absolutely nothing that can stand in for butyrate dope in aircraft modeling.  A couple of years ago, when I thought I'd finally run out of the stuff...I jumped through all the hoops looking for a substitute...and nothing I tried was satisfactory.  In fact...I was lucky...found that final unopened quart of Sig in the back of a bench drawer...and promptly cut it with thinner...and covered all that other garbage I'd tried with a new coat of THE REAL DEAL.  The shrink properties, not to mention its ability to weather and fuel proof, are important attributes.

While $58 per quart is ridiculous...that's just Sig's pricing/shipping costs...an attempt to gouge the modeler.  Other suppliers...as in actual aircraft dope suppliers...are about half that cost.  Much of this problem, IMO...has resulted from certain States who believe that they're protecting the environment and saving the world from...modelers and antique airplane owners...itself.  Oddly enough, one of those shipping points for Sig's dope...is located in an environmentist State haven!  Just don't open the can while there without a permit (money to the State).

As long as lacquer exists somewhere...I guess the world is doomed...but modelers will be happy.  Lowe's has brushable lacquer for $15 per quart. I'll cut that...don't know how it'll service...but if I have to...that's what I'll do.  Or...there's always the Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co. for the authentic world destroyer. Smiley

Thanks, Tom.

Neal
 
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Reply #54 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:13pm

tom arnold   Offline

Stick & Tissue
Casper WY

Posts: 48
 
I am always a bit hesitant to dis old fashioned dope but at $58 a quart, I just have to. Butyrate dope was originally formulated back in WWI as a fire-resistant (not "fire proof" but "fire resistant") topcoat over the almost-explosive nitrate dope that covered our favorite WWI fighters. The nitrate first would shrink the fabric, then butyrate would coat the fabric and cut down on the flammability and provide a fuel resistant coating. Both original formulas would promote shrinking of the cotton fabric which was desired then. With the advent in the 50s of heat-shrinkable Ceconite polyester fabric, the formulas were changed to a "non-shrinking" characteristic. However, for our purposes of light balsawood and tissue structures, they still shrink unless a lot of non-shrink chemicals are added that somewhat change the chemistry such as various oils and TCP, I think it is. I have old models that have hung on my walls that prove the incredible shrink power of "non-shrinking" dope. Dope was really never designed for our use.

Brushing laquer works fine as a substitute except that after a year of good drying, the tissue will absolutely shatter every time the model is picked up.

I have found the best substitute which is cheap, does not shrink tissue even after years, is flexible, easily gotten at any Walmart and is a great base for either enamels or acrylic colors is Krylon Satin Clear. I spray it into a jar and paint the stuff on like dope, getting into all the little nooks and crannies of a model. It thins and cleans with cheap lacquer thinner and if you want a slower drying product, automotive stores sell slower evaporating thinner. To me, it is everything dope is not.....but, all have their favorites.
 
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Reply #53 - May 15th, 2019 at 11:31am

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Kelso, WA 98626 USA

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Here's the link to Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co.: Click Here
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #52 - May 15th, 2019 at 9:04am

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Thanks, Tom.  Prices have really risen since last I purchased butyrate dope...my Sig quart can has a $9.95 sticker price on it...now is something like $58 (includes shipping)!  So Sig is no longer on my list.  Sad

Anyone ever experimented with brushable lacquer from someplace like Lowe's or Home Depot?  Thinned, of course...  It's almost "cheaper" to get it from a legitimate aircraft supply outfit now.  Oh for the old ways n' days. Cry

Neal
 
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Reply #51 - May 14th, 2019 at 7:09pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

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Brodak is a good source for dope unless you go to the full size aircraft suppliers for dope.  Here's Brodak's link: Brodak Dope/Enamels
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #50 - May 14th, 2019 at 7:02pm

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Thanks, Bob...my favorite tissue...I call it my pseudo aluminum skin.  Wink

Neal
 
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Reply #49 - May 14th, 2019 at 6:35pm

bigrip74   Offline
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What did l do this time!
Austin, Texas

Posts: 5760
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Beautiful tissue work Neal.

Bob
 

IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT!
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Reply #48 - May 14th, 2019 at 6:31pm

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Those were a couple of wonderful videos to start my morning with, Tom...loved the music accompaniment...awesome models...happy flyers.  Wink Cheesy Grin

Got the center pod and wing covered...doped...joined on my Lightning.  Noted that I'm about to run out of butyrate dope.  Cry  Gonna have to scout out a source to replenish it.

Neal
 
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Reply #47 - May 13th, 2019 at 11:45pm

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 10447
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You might find these videos of "Mega"Sized  Rubber Powered Free Flight models interesting: Click Here
Video 2 Click Here
Tom
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #46 - May 13th, 2019 at 8:11pm

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Looks great, Craig...to be expected.  Wink  So what's the plan...rubber powered, electric...rc?  Many years ago I seem to recall building a very similar model for rc...but I think it was a Jetco kit...had an OS10RC in it...flew magnificently.  At 4'6"ws your Aeronca will use a ton of rubber in order to fly...rotsa Wink Smileyruk.  Maybe RayK can set you up with some gears?  Cool

I've got the Lightning wing covered...my favorite tissue...light grey.  I'm now covering the forward and bottom part of the center pod...will then permanently mount it on the wing and deal with some gaps.  Smiley

Oh...those lightening holes with the hand-held paper punch...took 6 grams off the wing weight!  So then I went crazy punching wood out of the center pod.  Took nearly 10 grams away from it!  Gives you an idea of how much this thing weighs, doesn't it.  Shocked

Neal
 
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Reply #45 - May 13th, 2019 at 6:47pm

Craig 3   Offline
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I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
West Virginia, USA

Posts: 840
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Proof I'm doing a Comet build- actually, trying to figure out a better way to resize pics on a MacBook so I'm going to stick this here and see if it worked.
 

IMG_0711.jpeg (36 KB | 3 )
IMG_0711.jpeg
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Reply #44 - May 13th, 2019 at 11:11am

Sky9pilot   Offline
Administrator
Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 10447
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You're lightening steps are great...love the hole punch in wing ribs...just a thought thought, don't forget to balance your plane laterally (am I using the right term) now that you've taken wood out of the wings... don't want to have to add weight to keep the wings level in trimming.   Wink
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #43 - May 13th, 2019 at 11:07am

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
Belated effort to lighten the load...which I don't think is going to amount to a great deal of success.  Using a hand-held paper punch to remove a bit of balsa...may have to resort to Brother Dremel.  Should have been a bit more "pro-active" in the beginning.  Undecided  Reminds me of what a Colonel once said to me..."Don't want to hear about problems...I want to hear about jumping tall buildings at a single bound...."  Angry  Ok...I added that last part.... Wink

Neal
 
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Reply #42 - May 13th, 2019 at 10:43am

Sky9pilot   Offline
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Stick & Tissue
Kelso, WA 98626 USA

Posts: 10447
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This is some great ideas fellas...the Monokote would probably work well here.
 

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Reply #41 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:37am

Kerak   Offline
Senior Member
I Love YaBB 2.5 AE!
Roy, Utah

Posts: 2008
****
 
I like your idea, Marlin...my thought was to use multiple coats of dope on the area wing tissue...but obviously mylar would be even more effective (how about a strip of monokote?...that I have on hand  Grin).  Thanks!

Neal
 
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