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How to build model airplanes >> Tissue and finish >> Need help with decals

Message started by Bis on Mar 4th, 2019 at 8:17pm

Title: Need help with decals
Post by Bis on Mar 4th, 2019 at 8:17pm
Hello all.
I am in need of help with my SE-5. I have put several coats of 30/70 easydope/ water, followed by many coats of acrylic paint, followed by a light coat of Krylon color master gloss.
I next tried putting  the decals on.  The do not stick. I got one side of the rudder to stick, I thought. I gave it a second light coat of gloss after it had set for a day and the entire decal just lifted right off.
What can I do, I don't have the capability to print a tissue or decal sheet.   Could I spray it with Krylon flat and get it to stick or go over the gloss with more acrylic paint?
I sure hope you can help
Thanks Bis

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by pb_guy on Mar 4th, 2019 at 11:04pm
Some people say that you have to let the finish dry for an extended period of time. I wonder if the adhesion might be improved by roughing up the surface that the decal sits on with some 600 grit wet and dry sandpaper used wet. I have never tried it, and I would suggest a decal scrap be tried on a throw-away test piece before trying it on a valuable model.

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 4th, 2019 at 11:30pm
A picture could help with what advice to give.  Here's a couple questions to help get a picture of what you're dealing with.
1. I'm assuming you're using water slide decals(this is a decal that is on a paper backing that you soak in water to soften the glue and slide it off the paper backing and slide it in place on the airplane)?
2. Did the decals show silvering(this is where the clear edges show silver/white-ish spots under the decal) after you let them dry?

You don't want to sand anything where water slide decals will be placed.  In fact, the surface  works the best if it is very smooth and glossy.

Assuming that you're using water slide decals, make sure you don't soak them too long in the water or the glue on the back of the decal will be washed away and won't stick the decal down.  If this does happen a diluted white glue/water solution will work to apply the decal and when it dries it will dry clear on a nice glossy surface.  A flat clear from Krylon or other paint will work to make the decal to look painted on.

Plastic modelers have a system for applying decals called Micro Sol and Micro Set.  The first make the decal very pliable so it will conform to the surface it's being applied to.  Then with a brush apply the Micro sol to the decal, it will wrinkle a bit, but as it dries it will lay flat and really stick down to the surface. 

This works on S&T models but the surface must be prepared in such a way that the area to receive the decal has to be sealed and smooth and glossy.  I hope this makes sense.

Here's a video of the Micro Sol and Set being applied to a plastic model: Click Here

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Bis on Mar 5th, 2019 at 10:06am
Sky9pilot, thanks for the quick reply. I am using the decals that came with the Guillows kit and they are water slide. These things are huge, the emblems on the wings are 4" dia. and the rudder is 1.4 x 4.0.
The only ones that have stuck well are the ones on the bottom of the bottom wing where the surface is flat and have a very light coat of gloss. The top of the top wing has a much heavier coat of gloss and is irregular (where the ribs are). The top decals appear as though i could just lift them off and have lots of air bubbles the I could not work out.
On the rudder I used decal set on one one side and the decal slid off on its own, I did get the center to stick somewhat and use diluted white glue around the edges, it still looked like crap. The other side I just used plain water and it looked like it might stick, so after a day to make sure it was dry I hit it with a light coat of clear gloss and the entire decal lifted off.
On the Guillows forum someone said that the problem was that the Krylon gloss made the tissue water proof,  but I don't see out that would be a problem since decals stick to plastic just fine.
The decals are not "slivering", 2 of the 4." Decals did crack while sitting in the water.
Do you think if I were to soak the decals in water that has some white glue added would work.
I am computer illiterate,  so I have know idea how to post a picture .
Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 5th, 2019 at 10:39am

Since you've already sprayed the clear over the decals there's not much that can be done.  You might try the Micro Set and Micro Sol to see if they will help.  Follow the directions to see if they will help stick the decal down. Use a small brush to apply the solution around the edges to see if you can float some solution under the parts of the decal that isn't sticking down.  Then coat the top of the decal again with the solution and let it dry.  A little goes along way so blot up the excess with klenex or paper towel and let this dry to see if it will help.

There's another decal solution by Walthers called Solvaset that works pretty good and can be purchased through Amazon.  Here's a picture of what it looks like.

If you have old decals (over a year or two old) they tend to become brittle and crack easily.  Some will use a light dusting of clear over the decal to help hold it together.  Then trim the clear edges off as close to the color of the decal to avoid the silver of the clear decal edges.  My experience has been the best with a smooth glossy surface for applying decals then use the solutions to get the decal to conform to the surface (like ribs, rivets, panel lines etc.) Once dry and set, then to finish with a clear flat or glossy coat to make the decal look like it's painted on.  That's all I can tell you at this point.
41VwDDccmoL.jpg ( 21 KB | 5 Downloads )

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Bis on Mar 5th, 2019 at 11:09am
Again thanks for the reply.
I have only put a second coat of clear on one site of the rudder and it lifted off the surface on its
Since you don't think I should soak the decals in a water/glue mixture, what about painting a thin coat of diluted water/white glue on the surface just before I apply the decal?
I am using distilled water at room temp. Should it be warmed?
Thanks again.

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 5th, 2019 at 3:07pm
That should work in replacement glue for re-attachment of the decals.  I'd recommend very thin coat on back of the decal.  This should work to mount those decals that come loose.  Also to tack down any loose edges of decals.

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Bis on Mar 5th, 2019 at 3:40pm
Thank you SO much for all your help. I called Guillows and have another set of decals coming, so we will give it another try, following your recommendations. I'm sure it is probably my fault, but I have never had these typs of problems before, of course i have never worked with decals this big.

Title: Re: Need help with decals
Post by Sky9pilot on Mar 5th, 2019 at 7:10pm
Great....please post pictures of your build in the current builds section for all of us to see!

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