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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A KK Senator Cookup (Read 112915 times)
Sky9pilot
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #42 - Nov 12th, 2014 at 2:07pm
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Officially we start on the 14th November...
So far I know of the following:
Sky9pilot "Tom"
Bigrip74 "Bob"
Colonel Manfred Von Holstein
JimM
CDwebb "David"

Who are the other 4 modelers?  Let us know who you are please...

Sky9pilot
  

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Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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cdwebb
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #41 - Nov 12th, 2014 at 9:01am
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I have decided to wait for the official start date to begin building - that means I'm not gluing anything together before the 14th of this month. IT DOES NOT mean that I haven't done anything!

When I started my first plan build I absolutely hated cutting out all the parts needed. I'm not sure what happened, but now I find it one of the most enjoyable parts of the process. Maybe it's the challenge of seeing just how close I can make a part match the plan (there always seems to be room for improvement), I don't know. But the bottom line is I have all the lumber sawed into 1/8" squares, 1/16" squares and 1/8" X 3/8" planks. All of the ribs are cut, as well as the various shaped parts. My kit is checked against the plan and ready to go.

From now to starting time will be spent thinking over the best and cleanest way to engineer the tip up wing DT. I've done this before on the 3/4 Senator, but here again, there's room for some improvement.

CD
  
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Colonel Manfred von Holstein
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #40 - Nov 12th, 2014 at 6:51am
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Wow!  Nine participants so far.

Thanks for the advice and measurements guys. I 'll be following the lead of you more experienced guys with this build so a pop wing DT it will be. I've seen the advice to round off the top of the nose plug. AppleHoney must have written it a hundred times on the various forums. It makes a ton of sense to me.

I made a trip to the hobby shop last night to pick up some dowels for my Moths. They didn't have 3/32" dowels but the trip wasn't a total loss. I spent about an hour sorting thru and weighing balsa for the Senator. I used the Senator02.pdf as a guideline on appropriate weights. Happy to say that I think I found everything I need including two nice, light, quartergrain 1/16x3 sheets of balsa. I won't be starting this build until after the second Moth is finished, but I'm prepared.
  

3 rules of Free Flight: Keep it light, don't build heavy, and it shouldn't weigh much.
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JimM
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #39 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 10:08pm
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> ROUND off the top end of the nose plug regardless of DT system

I learned that tip many years ago and have plugged (pun intended) it ever since; good to hear others now promoting
that simple advice.   I haven't broken a prop on d/t or regular landing in all those years ....  but  it won't prevent breakage if you goof and put the model into the ground under power
  
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bigrip74
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #38 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 8:51pm
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While cleaning out my room I found the plans for the first Senator that I built and will be able to use these for this cookup. I will follow yall's builds for help in carving that blasted prop that I have so much trouble attempting.

Bob
  

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Sky9pilot
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #37 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 10:55am
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Having built mostly scale models....I've never built a model with a DT, so I'm looking forward to learning a bunch on how to build DT's be it main wing or horizontal stab or the whole empennage!  I'm enjoying this discourse already and haven't started anything as of yet.  Just reviewing the plans over and over. 

Keep up the great input fellas...
Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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staubkorb
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #36 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 8:49am
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+1 to Jim's comments about the pop-up wing.  I use  the system on mine and have had no problems with front end damage.  I've a small, extra "safety" with an effective shock absorber in the landing gear mount - adds a bit of weight (~1 gram), but does a very good job of negating the nose-down impact.  ROUND off the top end of the nose plug regardless of DT system.

For what it's worth, my propshaft is, or seems to be, coat hanger wire (my prop and shaft came from Bob Isaacks) so it is relatively soft, but so far has not bent.
  

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JimM
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #35 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 4:45pm
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>, they come down nose first with a pop up wing DT and are more likely to damage the front end

Absolutley NOT SO!    I've been dropping three Senators this way for a number of years ... many, many times  ... and I have NEVER sustained any damage to any of them at any time.

If you're worried about breaking a prop - forget it. Just be sure the top of the noseblock plug is rounded so that the unit rolls out of the fuselage at any impact.

Yes, a tip tail brings the model down on a fairly even keel; it also allows a thermal to take the model up quite easily.  With a tip wing descent is positive, a thermal may slow it but it won't take it.

The only more efficient d/t is a drop-off wing but I would not use that on anything larger or heavier than a P30.

Trust the voice of long experience with Senators!

Yes, centre panel is 16", tips 8"   
  
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cdwebb
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #34 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 3:59pm
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Not an awful lot of time spent, but there weren't a lot of differences to deal with either. Both of these plans came from the same printer, so minor printing errors should be a wash. These plans just traveled through the U.S. Mail through high and low humidity and varying temperatures. I've seen what temperature and humidity can do to a drawing, so take the measurements here for what they are worth - a comparison.

                              Soggi plan                KK plan   

Fuse Length                 25"                         25 5/16"

Fuse width                   2"                          2"

WS                         32 3/16"                  32 3/16"
(cent. panel             16 1/16"                  16 1/16")

Chord                       4 1/2"                     4 5/8"

TP span                   17 3/4"                   18"

TP chord                   3 1/2"                     3 1/2"       

David 
  
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cdwebb
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #33 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 3:12pm
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Colonel, both the KK and the Soggi plans arrived in the mail today. My intention is to measure at several different places on both as printed and post comparative measurements back here this evening.

I love a nice fresh, crisp plan!! Can't wait to stain it up! Cool

David
  
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Colonel Manfred von Holstein
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #32 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 2:26pm
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I'm leaning towards building mine with the least amount of modifications except for a stabilizer DT. The wing DT is tempting in that the weight of the components are farther forward on a model that extra tail weight is never needed. But the way I understand it, they come down nose first with a pop up wing DT and are more likely to damage the front end. Supposedly a stab DT drops out of the sky with a more level attitude, like a pancake instead of a shot duck. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken about that.

I'm having a ex-coworker print my plan and laminate it. Should work better than plastic wrap or wax paper. There's not much to reference scale as far as I can tell. I understand it's a 32" WS, but only 30" with the dihedral set. I read somewhere that when scaled properly, the center section of the wing is 16" long. Can anyone confirm this?

What's the span and chord of the stabilizer?

I'll echo Tom's comment about looking forward to your Rainbow build. Not to get too far off track in this thread, but is it the IC/RC Rainbow plan from the Outerzone? If so, will it be modified for rubber power?
  

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Sky9pilot
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #31 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 3:40pm
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Robert...good as place as any!  I was thinking like you, that the prop would be a good place to start.  Now to decide on which block pattern to use! Cheesy Grin Wink

Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Robert Hudson
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #30 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 7:18am
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I think I'll start with the prop Wink
  

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Gesundheit...
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Sky9pilot
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #29 - Nov 8th, 2014 at 4:03pm
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pb_guy...I understand about the other project, but maybe when you finish the Rainbow you can join us here!

Look forward to following the Rainbow on Current Builds Board.

Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Re: A KK Senator Cookup are you interested?
Reply #28 - Nov 8th, 2014 at 10:30am
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Well! I have the wood, glue, plenty of T-pins, but still no plan so it will be an HP print out and taped together. I will follow everyone's build especially when we start that darn prop carving. Angry

Bob
  

IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT!
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