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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint (Read 3824 times)
Dan
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #18 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 4:27pm
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Perhaps I can offer a little more insight here...

As regards printers, HP printers are not the greatest. We used to have one at home, and the ink was pricey, even for refilled cartridges. I used to work on office machines, and found HP printers to be pretty problematic. The Sharps were the cream of that crop, but Sharp doesn't produce printers with home use in mind. Can't say what brand of printer I'd recommend for the home user.

As regards paint and decals, when I was building plastic models, I would use the same brand throughout the process. I always applied decals to a glossy surface and applied a flat-coat if necessary. I never mixed acrylics and enamels, as that could potentially cause problems. Since I have yet to work with dope (except maybe when I was in AMT school), I can't say if it will play nice with paint of other chemical compositions.

An aside pertinent to paint type compatibility: during my deployment in 2006, my department was tasked with painting our showers. At the time, I was an AD3 (paygrade E-4). My superiors favored a bright white, rather than a creamy white, finish. I told them this wss not a wise idea. They disagreed, and the bright white water-based paint was used. You can imagine what happened: within two weeks, that water-based paint peeled like a banana, revealing the creamy white oil-based paint underneath it!
  

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #17 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 7:46pm
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Thanks, Mike! It was frustrating to use the screenshots from the decal webpages. For the P-47, I ended up using the stars and bars from the decal links here in the decal section. Much better results.

The HP inks are lousy when it comes to being affected by almost anything including Krylon sealant. The P-47 markings were the last thing to go on the model.

I'll keep working at it, and I appreciate all the help!!
  
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MKelly
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #16 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 2:52pm
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AK,

For insignia, instead of copying a decal sheet (the JPG compression does funny things to the colors, especially near color transitions) grab insignia graphics like those on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aircraft_national_insignia

These scale nice and sharp and the colors are crisper and more consistent.

My wife has an HP printer and the inks are NOT water-resistant like the Dura-Brite inks on my Epson.

Regarding the colored pencil, I go at it pretty hard, with multiple passes and keeping the tip fairly sharp.  After a couple of passes the the colored areas take on a solid, almost plastic-like look.

Hope this helps,

Mike
  
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Sky9pilot
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #15 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 11:03am
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The difficulty of tissue-cals is that tissue, especially white tissue tends to go translucent when applied or when oversprayed with clear dope or Krylon Chrystal Clear.  Another option for white tissue is a light dusting of white paint sprayed on the back.  You cannot saturate the tissue or it might bleed through the other colors printed on the front side of the tissue.  Some use the floral spray for this which us usually a finer spray than most rattle cans.  You can sit a rattle can in hot water for five minutes before spraying and this will help to raise the pressure in the can and give a finer spray.

The other option is to print using your HP printer on white decal paper.  You'll get the white you desire because of the white decal paper.  This then requires you to apply the decal with the process used on plastic model.  With HP printers there's the danger of ink running with any sealing coat, dope or Krylon Crystal Clear.  A light dusting of Krylon Crystal Clear over the decal paper can seal the ink to avoid this problem. 

With decal paper you'll need a glossy surface to apply the decal paper or it won't sit down satisfactorily.  Hope this is helpful.
  

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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #14 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:15am
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Back on to this subject with the XP-47H. I'm trying to use Mike's technique and not having quite the same results.

But first things first. I see a number of things that may influence the outcome. One is the printer type and quality of printing. Another is the type and color of tissue being printed on. Then there is the image being copied...how good is it? And lastly, what is being used to highlight the tissue image after printing?

I'm using a HP DeskJet with standard color cartridge. I'm printing on white tissue (not Esaki). The USAAF stars and bars image was copied from a decal layout on the Internet. To highlight the white parts, I tried several things. One was the white pencil that Mike shows. I also tried several white ink/marker pens. I applied this to the back side of the tissue.

Using the white pencil, I could not get the same opaque white color that is seen in Mike's T-28 pics. The pencil did add a small amount of highlighting but not as much as desired. So far, I have had the best result using a Uni-Ball Signo ink pen, it produces a noticeable improvement in the white decals. It does leave a 'mottled' appearance due to the liquid nature of the ink.

One other issue that I'm struggling with is the blue color of the decal. I seem to get mostly black-like colors or purply looking colors, not a blue as in the insignia.

Tips and suggestions appreciated!!
  
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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #13 - May 10th, 2018 at 8:50am
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LabinaLA wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 2:08am:
sorry that is not on the topic, I wanted to ask.Is from this material it turns out something worthwhile?


Not for me. I'm going to stay with printing on tissue. I think the waterslide type that I bought is more appropriate for putting decals on things like coffee mugs, etc, not the models that we build.
  
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LabinaLA
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #12 - May 8th, 2018 at 2:08am
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sorry that is not on the topic, I wanted to ask.Is from this material it turns out something worthwhile?
  
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MKelly
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #11 - May 6th, 2018 at 12:04pm
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AK,

I apply the glue stick to the markings, then put them on the model.  I'm using UHU clear glue stick, although I have successfully used Elmer's purple too.  A q'tip moistened with rubbing alcohol will remove glue stick residue, but you don't want to have it fully wetted or scrub it hard against the tissue. 

I have yet to try dope over Tamiya paints other than at the edges of repairs, and those were painted over with a fresh coat of Tamiya, so I don't know how well that would work.  Might be better to use Tamiya clear coat to seal the markings if you're putting them down over paint.

You definitely want some sort of sealer coat over the markings - on the Navion I waited a couple weeks before doping over the black USAF lettering and the glue stick started to let go from the doped silver tissue.  A little rubbing alcohol re-activated the glue stick and got them stuck back down, and a with a coat of Nitrate dope over the finished wing I've had no further problems with the markings coming loose.

I haven't tried coloring the tissue before printing - not sure how well the print heads would handle any particulates that might come loose.

As far as the hangar goes, thanks - I'm learning with every model I build...

Mike
  
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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #10 - May 6th, 2018 at 9:31am
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I'm working with replacing the decals with tissue and have some questions.

Do you apply the glue stick to the tissue decal or to the airplane itself? I've tried both. When gluing the airplane surface, I've had problems with residue glue and haven't been able to clean it off well. I've tried UHU (blue stick) and Elmers (both white, clear, and purple glue sticks).

I'm airbrushing Tamiya acrylics. Any problems applying dope over this paint?

I'm using the same white pencil as you. I'm going to try it out on the Polish markings and compare this to applying the tissue decal without highlighting the white areas. Attached are pics showing these without doping. #1 is top of the wing, dark brown and #2 is the bottom in light blue.

Is it possible to color the tissue before printing on it?

Btw, I looked at your hangar...great stuff and definitely something to aspire to!
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2018 at 10:40am by alfakilo »  

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MKelly
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #9 - May 5th, 2018 at 10:48am
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AK,

I usually use a white colored pencil on the back of the lighter colors (anything I want to stand out).  See pics below - on the Me-262 I colored the back of the yellow numbers, white insignia and blue/white flash in front of the cockpit.  In the pic the markings on one side of the tissue have been colored, the other side hasn't yet been colored - you can see the difference.  Same for the sheet of US insignia, with the white and red areas colored.  You can see in the picture of the Navion how the white pencil opaques the tissue and keeps the silver from showing through.

Mike
  

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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #8 - May 5th, 2018 at 7:22am
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MKelly wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 5:35am:
Do a quick web search to find a good graphic for the insignia, import it into PowerPoint and scale it appropriately, then print it on white tissue.  Color the back side with a white colored pencil, cut the insignia out and tack it to the model using glue stick, then seal with a coat of dope.  If you look in my hangar you can see a Navion and an F5F with insignia done this way. Mike


I like this technique and used it on this Bristol. The wing and tail red stripes are red tissue over white. The roundels were printed on white tissue and the red color clearly shows thru.

Taking someone's advice, I bought some Prismacolor pencils. When you say to color the backside, I'm assuming you mean only the white portions?
  

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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #7 - May 5th, 2018 at 5:35am
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Do a quick web search to find a good graphic for the insignia, import it into PowerPoint and scale it appropriately, then print it on white tissue.  Color the back side with a white colored pencil, cut the insignia out and tack it to the model using glue stick, then seal with a coat of dope.  If you look in my hangar you can see a Navion and an F5F with insignia done this way.

Mike
  
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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #6 - May 4th, 2018 at 9:43pm
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MKelly wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 12:56pm:
I've given up on waterslide decals and now use printed tissue.  With a little care and some chalk or pencil to opaque the back side...Mike


I've tried tissue and so far it has worked OK for me, just more work than a traditional decal.

Using the Polish fighter that I've mentioned, how would you use tissue to achieve the same (or close to) appearance?
  
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2018 at 12:56pm
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AK, your pictures mirror my experiences trying to put decals on tissue-covered models.  Hard to get them to stick down, even with Solvaset.  I always seem to get discolored areas from trapped air under the decal, and when they do stick down they aren't very robust, fracturing and flaking off anywhere the tissue takes damage. 

I've given up on waterslide decals and now use printed tissue.  With a little care and some chalk or pencil to opaque the back side they'll look just as sharp and clean as waterslide decals, but they lay down much better on the surface and after a coat of dope will look and behave just like the tissue substrate.  Plus, if (when) you damage the skin you can just print and apply fresh markings over the repairs.

Mike
  
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alfakilo
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Re: Applying Decals Over Acrylic Paint
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2018 at 10:32am
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Here is a wing decal applied on a flat surface. The decal on the other side did not curl up as bad as the first, but it scratched easily. The fuselage decal stayed on well but all decals were easy to scratch while blotting out the bubbles, etc.

The decal paper was sprayed twice with Krylon clear before application.

I'll post more when I try to fix these.
  

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