Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 33 Send TopicPrint
Locked Topic Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one) (Read 30929 times)
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11744
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #357 - Jan 21st, 2020 at 9:59am
 
Skye...this is like adding jewelery to the overall look of the bird!!!  Accessorizing I think they call it!!! Grin Wink
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #356 - Jan 21st, 2020 at 1:16am
 
I'm going to jump ahead of myself and show what my four hours have resulted.  Despite research over the Internet,  I have no idea exactly how the landing gear retraction actuators are plumbed, I'm just guessing as to how they might be from observing the landscaping machinery such as caterpillar equipment and backhoes.  I figured it couldn't be much different.

The kinked line under the razor will eventually be straightened out.  It's here just for photographic purposes.  Of course, the connectors were painted blue.....  Grin
  

( 100 KB | 3 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___150A.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #355 - Jan 21st, 2020 at 1:00am
 
Continuing with the wheel well detailing, I've decided to do a mixed bag of using two different full sized Mustang's wells as my source to replicate the interiors.  Logic?  None. Reasons?  Just pure artistic license since they both seem to give the best of what I'm seeking to bring out in a wheel well interior (of all things).

Soooo, without further ado. I've posted both of them here for reference.  Admittedly the first one is of the left wing as evidenced by the landing light, was decided purely because I was attracted by the parallel plumbing contrasted by the zinc chromate background.  It also featured the connectors to plumbing painted in blue that just reeks of restoration.  It also added some unusual color that is normally not considered on warbirds. Looking closely, one can also notice what appears to be copper-colored plumbing that is kinked in a zig zag fashion,  I decided to make it straight on my interior.

The second just had that artistic "buzz" that I liked with the hydraulic actuator finished off in silver with green clamps. 
  

( 225 KB | 6 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___95A.png
( 201 KB | 6 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___50A_001.png
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #354 - Jan 21st, 2020 at 12:13am
 
Sky9, and gentlemen,

Your idea of supplementing the underlying covering with thin plastic sheeting to serve a dual purpose of: A) adding strength where it's needed and B) to provide the "lip" around the wheel well outline is absolutely brilliant.  I'm going to actively pursue this avenue.  I'm also going to employ this idea to the wing machine bay area as well.

Yes, your idea of adding the whole area around the root should definitely be sheeted rather than just around the wheel well outlines as previously discussed. 

It provides a very simple, yet logical approach to solving my issues on the openness of the wheel well areas which just by themselves have weakened the wings at their root in addition to the cosmetic issues.

Sky9 called to my attention that no one has any idea as to how the wings looked during my revised construction, I decided it best to scroll down "memory's lane" and call back some of my older pictures to help give a good idea of what they look like and where I'm taking all this.

I also thought it best to throw in the machine gun bay area detailing done on the right wing.  I counter-balanced with some added clay to the left wing.

As you can see from the first and last pictures, near the roots, just about everything is wide open to account for the room needed for the detailing of the wheel wells.  This is where the added plastic sheeting will come in handy.  I'm also considering reinforcing the top surface as well with plastic sheeting as added insurance for strength.
  

( 111 KB | 5 Downloads )
P-51___163_wing_detailA.jpg
( 95 KB | 5 Downloads )
P-51_146-2_001.jpg
( 111 KB | 5 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well___wing_outlines___11A.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11744
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #353 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 11:40pm
 
After looking at the pictures again I decided to fill in the whole sheet appearance to give a semi-accurate look at the sheet plastic.  My only concern is I don't really know what underlying structure looks like!  But you know what that is and how this could strengthen the joint of both wing panels!!!
  

( 230 KB | 3 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___3a.jpg

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #352 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 11:26pm
 
Ahhh, I get it now.  Great idea!  I'll start looking in my Evergreen stash for the appropriate thin plastic sheeting.  Excellent!  I'll see if it doesn't alter the outline too much. 

BTW, I was also thinking of the same thing of making the underside wing covering into one piece, or at least just two panels joined at the center rib.  I'm also thinking of tripling the center rib to give it added strength.

Thank you!!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11744
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #351 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 10:04pm
 
Skye...I borrowed your picture and used it to describe what I was talking about. I assume that the thick paper you're using hasn't been attached to the wing structure/framework yet? So the thin plastic can be cut to shape and mounted in the wheel well without being destructive to the wing at this time.  It would remain completely out of sight and yet give the support you would need around the opening of the strut and strut cover.  The edge could stick out just enough to give the desired lip and could be painted/covered before being glued in place giving you the look you want.    Support and look all in one solution.
As I looked at the wing panel picture you posted it came to me that it could even be made to cover both wheel wells in one piece adding strength to the wing joint in a very weak area of the skin where the inner doors  would be adding additional weakness to the openings.  Just a thought.
  

( 123 KB | 4 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___2.jpg
( 235 KB | 3 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___3.jpg

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #350 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 7:55pm
 
Sky9,

Thank you very much for your reply.  I must admit I had to reread your response several times to get the idea of what you meant.  Both possibilities carry merit.  Not too sure of the first one though.  The adhesive to the foil is extremely strong, I doubt it would be possible for even heavily waxed paper to be able to slip out from under the foil unscathed.

I like the second alternative.  I'll have to run it through my mind a couple of times while sitting in front of the model.  Sounds good.

In the meantime, I'm still trying to keep the momentum going.  Decided to keep super detailing of the wheel wells to help give me some motivation.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11744
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #349 - Jan 16th, 2020 at 9:36am
 
Skye,
Is there a way to use heavily waxed stringers or teflon strips placed over that which is to be covered so the covering can be oriented over the panel to be covered and when you're ready to apply the covering slide out the strips and attach the covering.  It's kinda like the counter top covering with contact cement we used to do and then once aligned pull out the strips of wood and press down the counter top.  Hope this makes sense.

Is there a way to reinforce the bay of the wheel well flush with the structure giving the opening the desired stiffness and rigidity to stand up to the handling it might experience?  I was thinking sheet acetate or thin mil plastic sheet just to support the opening edges.
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #348 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 8:49pm
 
Sky9, Mike, Gentlemen,

Sky9, you're correct in pointing out a question as to whether or not there was going to be any activity since I mentioned the word, "durable."   What I meant, was, if the model is being handled in any way such that the person's hands ended up holding the model from the undersides that exposes the wheel well outlines to weight or movement, that the outline (lip) wouldn't be deformed.  It is, after all, made out of nothing more than paper (thick, but still paper) and foil suspended over a large opening without any support directly underneath. 

Mike, excellent idea!  I'll go along with that.  Thank you! 

I'm assuming that the foil is already pre-cut to the smaller outline before peeling it off from the backing paper.  Is this what you mean?  From there, I would have to carefully line up the foil over the outline such that the inner and outer  outlines match perfectly.
That being the case, only need to know how to attach the foil in such a way that its strong adhesive backing doesn't prevent me from moving the foil around to its final place. 

Sort of like holding the backing paper to a decal over the general area desired, then sliding off the decal.  From there, gently moving the decal to its final place.  How can I perform this task if the foil (decal) has a strong adhesive backing such that the slightest touch makes it adhere to the surface.  The two outlines have to match perfectly.  Or is there another way?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MKelly
5 Star Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1010
Location: Helotes, TX
Joined: Apr 11th, 2017
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #347 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 6:07pm
 
Gary,

I was thinking the silver painted glossy paper would be cut to the inside size of the skin covering the wheel well area (in other words, the opening should be cut to include the lip as part of the paper).  Then the Flite Metal should be cut to the gear door dimensions (not including the lip).  This way the Flite Metal opening is bigger than the paper opening, and you get a representative thin edge where the skin meets the lip around the wheel well.

Mike
  

( 77 KB | 6 Downloads )
Wheel_Well_Skinning.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11744
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #346 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 4:49pm
 
Skye...you mention "durable" for the small lip of the wheelwell bay opening.  Is there going to be some activity there??  I'm sure you could find a good silver or aluminum paint that could be brushed in place after all the work in the wheel well was finished. Back in the plastic modeling phase  I used to pack the wheel well with kleenix tissue so the paint couldn't spoil the detail work of the wheel well and then using a 00 paint brush paint the edge with the needed color.  If the Flitemetal won't wrap the edge for you, paint is an option and there are a ton of paint options to get the desired results.  Just a thought!
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #345 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 2:46pm
 
Mike, Gentlemen,

Here's an overall shot of the underside to the right wing.  As you can see, I've placed the template of the landing gear next to the wheel well.  The foil, called Flite Metal, will eventually be laid on top of the silver painted glossy paper. 

As previous postings will show, I've taken into account the location of the landing gear with respect to the wing.  It was from this position that I based my interior detailing such as the "ceiling," the wing ribs, and the plumbing that will be added to the overall interior wheel well.

What I'm now seeking is a possible solution to the "lip" that surrounds the outline of the wheel well on the wing itself, not the landing gear cover. The landing gear cover also has its own "lip" but will be dealt later.  Looking closely, at the second photo of the real Mustang looking straight up into the wheel well, one can see a small, almost indistinguishable lip that surrounds the outline of this wheel well.  This is what I'm trying to find a way to fabricate such a lip that is thin, yet durable, and follows the outline almost around the whole wheel well.

This "lip" has to be nearly exact in outline of the original wheel well yet somewhat larger such that it sticks out.
  

( 169 KB | 3 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___142A.jpg
( 218 KB | 4 Downloads )
P-51_wheel_well_detail___109A_003.png
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MKelly
5 Star Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1010
Location: Helotes, TX
Joined: Apr 11th, 2017
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #344 - Jan 13th, 2020 at 8:26pm
 
I was thinking you'd put the gear door template on the model, get it aligned how you need it to be, then apply and trim the Flite Metal in place.  However, I've never used Flite Metal - do you have to pre-cut it off the model before application?

Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Skyediamonds
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Enjoying life and all
aspects of modeling

Posts: 2720
Location: Reno, Nevada
Joined: Dec 30th, 2016
Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #343 - Jan 13th, 2020 at 3:01pm
 
Mike,
Sounds like a great idea!  I cut out the template of say the gear door from the plans.  Then over a table, spread the Flite Metal on the glossy thick paper that's laid on top of the table.  Place the template over the two, and cut the outline along the edges of the template, take the results to the wing and fit the whole thing over the wheel wells. Is this what you're saying?

I'd also have to be very careful to match up the whole covering to follow  the underside of the wing along the leading edges, trailing edges including the flaps and ailerons (which do not line up with each other as one would expect), and then to have the wheel well outline match up exactly over the wheel well.  Wow....

How do I create the exact outline of the inner lip to match the outer skin/foil?

I'm seeing a light at the end of a tunnel.....  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 33
Send TopicPrint