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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one) (Read 93905 times)
Sky9pilot
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #351 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 10:04pm
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Skye...I borrowed your picture and used it to describe what I was talking about. I assume that the thick paper you're using hasn't been attached to the wing structure/framework yet? So the thin plastic can be cut to shape and mounted in the wheel well without being destructive to the wing at this time.  It would remain completely out of sight and yet give the support you would need around the opening of the strut and strut cover.  The edge could stick out just enough to give the desired lip and could be painted/covered before being glued in place giving you the look you want.    Support and look all in one solution.
As I looked at the wing panel picture you posted it came to me that it could even be made to cover both wheel wells in one piece adding strength to the wing joint in a very weak area of the skin where the inner doors  would be adding additional weakness to the openings.  Just a thought.
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #350 - Jan 19th, 2020 at 7:55pm
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Sky9,

Thank you very much for your reply.  I must admit I had to reread your response several times to get the idea of what you meant.  Both possibilities carry merit.  Not too sure of the first one though.  The adhesive to the foil is extremely strong, I doubt it would be possible for even heavily waxed paper to be able to slip out from under the foil unscathed.

I like the second alternative.  I'll have to run it through my mind a couple of times while sitting in front of the model.  Sounds good.

In the meantime, I'm still trying to keep the momentum going.  Decided to keep super detailing of the wheel wells to help give me some motivation.

  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #349 - Jan 16th, 2020 at 9:36am
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Skye,
Is there a way to use heavily waxed stringers or teflon strips placed over that which is to be covered so the covering can be oriented over the panel to be covered and when you're ready to apply the covering slide out the strips and attach the covering.  It's kinda like the counter top covering with contact cement we used to do and then once aligned pull out the strips of wood and press down the counter top.  Hope this makes sense.

Is there a way to reinforce the bay of the wheel well flush with the structure giving the opening the desired stiffness and rigidity to stand up to the handling it might experience?  I was thinking sheet acetate or thin mil plastic sheet just to support the opening edges.
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #348 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 8:49pm
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Sky9, Mike, Gentlemen,

Sky9, you're correct in pointing out a question as to whether or not there was going to be any activity since I mentioned the word, "durable."   What I meant, was, if the model is being handled in any way such that the person's hands ended up holding the model from the undersides that exposes the wheel well outlines to weight or movement, that the outline (lip) wouldn't be deformed.  It is, after all, made out of nothing more than paper (thick, but still paper) and foil suspended over a large opening without any support directly underneath. 

Mike, excellent idea!  I'll go along with that.  Thank you! 

I'm assuming that the foil is already pre-cut to the smaller outline before peeling it off from the backing paper.  Is this what you mean?  From there, I would have to carefully line up the foil over the outline such that the inner and outer  outlines match perfectly.
That being the case, only need to know how to attach the foil in such a way that its strong adhesive backing doesn't prevent me from moving the foil around to its final place. 

Sort of like holding the backing paper to a decal over the general area desired, then sliding off the decal.  From there, gently moving the decal to its final place.  How can I perform this task if the foil (decal) has a strong adhesive backing such that the slightest touch makes it adhere to the surface.  The two outlines have to match perfectly.  Or is there another way?
  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #347 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 6:07pm
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Gary,

I was thinking the silver painted glossy paper would be cut to the inside size of the skin covering the wheel well area (in other words, the opening should be cut to include the lip as part of the paper).  Then the Flite Metal should be cut to the gear door dimensions (not including the lip).  This way the Flite Metal opening is bigger than the paper opening, and you get a representative thin edge where the skin meets the lip around the wheel well.

Mike
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #346 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 4:49pm
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Skye...you mention "durable" for the small lip of the wheelwell bay opening.  Is there going to be some activity there??  I'm sure you could find a good silver or aluminum paint that could be brushed in place after all the work in the wheel well was finished. Back in the plastic modeling phase  I used to pack the wheel well with kleenix tissue so the paint couldn't spoil the detail work of the wheel well and then using a 00 paint brush paint the edge with the needed color.  If the Flitemetal won't wrap the edge for you, paint is an option and there are a ton of paint options to get the desired results.  Just a thought!
  

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And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #345 - Jan 15th, 2020 at 2:46pm
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Mike, Gentlemen,

Here's an overall shot of the underside to the right wing.  As you can see, I've placed the template of the landing gear next to the wheel well.  The foil, called Flite Metal, will eventually be laid on top of the silver painted glossy paper. 

As previous postings will show, I've taken into account the location of the landing gear with respect to the wing.  It was from this position that I based my interior detailing such as the "ceiling," the wing ribs, and the plumbing that will be added to the overall interior wheel well.

What I'm now seeking is a possible solution to the "lip" that surrounds the outline of the wheel well on the wing itself, not the landing gear cover. The landing gear cover also has its own "lip" but will be dealt later.  Looking closely, at the second photo of the real Mustang looking straight up into the wheel well, one can see a small, almost indistinguishable lip that surrounds the outline of this wheel well.  This is what I'm trying to find a way to fabricate such a lip that is thin, yet durable, and follows the outline almost around the whole wheel well.

This "lip" has to be nearly exact in outline of the original wheel well yet somewhat larger such that it sticks out.
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #344 - Jan 13th, 2020 at 8:26pm
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I was thinking you'd put the gear door template on the model, get it aligned how you need it to be, then apply and trim the Flite Metal in place.  However, I've never used Flite Metal - do you have to pre-cut it off the model before application?

Mike
  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #343 - Jan 13th, 2020 at 3:01pm
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Mike,
Sounds like a great idea!  I cut out the template of say the gear door from the plans.  Then over a table, spread the Flite Metal on the glossy thick paper that's laid on top of the table.  Place the template over the two, and cut the outline along the edges of the template, take the results to the wing and fit the whole thing over the wheel wells. Is this what you're saying?

I'd also have to be very careful to match up the whole covering to follow  the underside of the wing along the leading edges, trailing edges including the flaps and ailerons (which do not line up with each other as one would expect), and then to have the wheel well outline match up exactly over the wheel well.  Wow....

How do I create the exact outline of the inner lip to match the outer skin/foil?

I'm seeing a light at the end of a tunnel.....  Smiley
  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #342 - Jan 12th, 2020 at 9:37pm
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Gary,

Can you cut a template to match the outer edge of the lip (basically a gear door template), tack it in place over the wheel well, then apply the Flite Metal, trim the Flite Metal along the edge of the template, then remove the template?  I've never played with that material, but that's how I would approach the problem if covering with foil tape.

Mike
  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #341 - Jan 12th, 2020 at 9:35pm
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Now working on the left wing wheel well interior.  For each rib I probably made about three or four to get the slot cutouts to match the stringers.  The curved cut outs are actually pretty smooth.  The inked outlines were pretty sketchy....
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #340 - Jan 12th, 2020 at 9:27pm
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Marc,

Thank you for that wonderful compliment.   It's greatly appreciated.  I've been following your build of the Flea and you too, have done remarkable job!  Very well done, sir.  So your compliment is coming from a modeler who knows what to look for in workmanship is really valued.

The skin, is actually made out of a combination of glossy paper and (to be added later) a metal foil with an adhesive backing.  This foil is called by its trade name, Flite Metal.  There are (now) also several other aftermarkets out there producing this foil.  So it really can't be heat treated.  I'm shooting for the Mustang to have a natural highly polished metal finish.  So covering the frame with tissue is not going to be possible.  Which is why I infilled the fuselage.

In years past, modelers used chome-backed plumber's duct tape for the simulated metal finish on their models.  Whereas its still a good source of inexpensive (read that, cheap) material to be used to simulate that natural metal finish that no amount of silver, chrome, or any of the metallic paints can duplicate, it requires a deft hand on the modeler's part to pull it off.  It also has its limitations.  Chief among them not being flexible to take compound curves, comes in only two-inch wide strips (not good for wing covering), and bubbling up under heat.

I did a lot of research, using various materials and lots of trial and error to come up with what I think is a good product that simulates the look of natural metal.  You can read up on my trials in the beginning of this build thread of the Mustang.

Flite Metal has helped many experts win Top Gun, the Nationals, and even FAI competition in the static display portion of the contests.  An F-100 Super Sabre comes immediately to my mind as one of the top contenders.   Because many modelers fly their R/C's as well as having them on display or waiting their turn for the flying portion of the competition, their models end up sitting out in the burning sun for hours at a time. 

In order to meet the requirements of maintaining its integrity, it has an extremely strong adhesive backing that will stick almost like super glue at the slightest touch. The company says it can stand temps as high as 350 degrees without bubbling or coming apart.  So it behooves us modelers to exercise due diligence when handling this foil, as I was to find out several times.  The name of the company that sells it is called Scale Aero and can easily be Googled.  If you should have any more questions/comments, I'll be glad to answer.

Getting back to the wing, this "lip" requires another added layer to the underside surface of the outer wing "skin" (glossy paper and Flite Metal foil). 

Still banging my head on the wall trying to figure out how to have two separate layers following each other's curvy wheel well outlines with one being slightly smaller than the other to reveal the overlap.
  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #339 - Jan 11th, 2020 at 4:56am
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Gary..outstanding work!!!.....you have steady hands!....
You mentioned the skin following the outline....is it a skin that can be heated?...heat the edge then lay it on the wheel well?
Marc
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2020 at 5:32am by Kaintuck »  
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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #338 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:55pm
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Gentlemen,

I'm still working out the details on the interior of the wheel wells and haven't made much progress lately.  However, I'm always trying to think ahead so I can carefully plan for my next move.  At this point, I'm trying to figure out how to create the "lip" that surrounds the wheel well outline.  This "lip" allows the gear doors to slightly overlap and seal themselves in.

Any suggestions?  My covering will be Flite Metal which is the aluminum foil with a strong adhesive backing.  Once it touches the surface of anything, that's it.  It's stuck.  So I have to be really careful how to approach this method of creating this lip. 

Should I cut out a slightly smaller outline on a separate sheet of glossy paper or thin plastic sheet and carefully line it up with the outline of the underside surface?  How should I go about attaching the foil and making sure it follows the wheel well outline exactly as on the full sized aircraft?

As usual, my methods of scale modeling is always "outside the box" of easy ways of building.
  

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Re: Guillow's P-51D Mustang (yep, another one)
Reply #337 - Dec 24th, 2019 at 4:24pm
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Tom and Mike,

Wow.  Thank you guys.  You really made my day with your comments.  It's greatly appreciated. 

Right now, I'll be working on the left wing which is similar to what's been accomplished here with the different plumbing and the added landing light. 

This shouldn't take too long as most of the trials and tribulations and studying of trying to figure out how all this was going to come together was done on the right wing. 

From there, I'll mate the two wing panels and start working on the center section which will include the actuators for the inner gear doors, mating of the main spars, and (trying to) figuring out how to finish off the ceiling of the interior with the accummators, gauges, more twisted plumbing, electrical wiring, and stuff.  When I get to that point, I'll keep everyone updated. 

Merry Christmas everyone.


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