Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85" (Read 4471 times)
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #50 - Oct 12th, 2019 at 12:37pm
Print Post  
The formers didn't get attached yesterday evening...I was feeling terrible (I suspect it's bronchitis). As often happens with me, I took the opportunity to see if I could do anything to make my re-do go better. This time I used one of the L2 pieces to set the required distance between the formers. Hopefully all glue holds, and I will be getting the right side together in short order. Construction on the right wing will also commence soon; my efforts to straighten the warped piece appear to have been successful.
  

( 99 KB | 0 Downloads )
Champion_Port_Side_Formers_Hopefully_Done.jpg

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #49 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 11:27am
Print Post  
New Builder wrote on Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:23am:
Computer's old enough to have come over with Columbus.

I'd be happy to have a working computer. Right now, I do my Internetting with a phone or a tablet.

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks to both Mike and Tom!

Got the Champion's fuselage a little closer to completion this afternoon, though it may seem as if I went backwards. My clamping idea didn't work too well; it wasn't terribly secure. However, the notches for the landing gear fairings have been enlarged to 3/32." One of the formers B2 broke, so repairs were needed. The formers that were removed from the keels will be re-installed after I eat dinner.
  

( 76 KB | 2 Downloads )
Not-So-Great_Clamp.jpg
( 112 KB | 1 Download )
Champion_Formers_B2_Braced.jpg

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11614
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #48 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:44am
Print Post  
I think you might be able to do this with MSPaint if your computer has this program.  Might have to experiment a bit to get the results you want...
Sky9pilot
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
New Builder
5 Star Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1243
Location: Amherstburg, Ontario, Canada
Joined: Dec 25th, 2016
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #47 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:23am
Print Post  
Tom - Always happy for the help as I don't have a copy of photoshop or any other software for that matter. Computer's old enough to have come over with Columbus. When the new one comes along then I get all the good stuff.
Mike
  

"Skill comes by the constant repetition of familiar feats rather than by a few overbold attempts for which the performer is yet poorly prepared." Wilbur Wright
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
New Builder
5 Star Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1243
Location: Amherstburg, Ontario, Canada
Joined: Dec 25th, 2016
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #46 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:20am
Print Post  
Here's a follow on to the sagging tissue note in my previous reply. I consider this to be too much sag in the shrunk tissue and is a result of not paying attention to the previous post and allowing the tissue to go on chord-wise. Not too concerned here as it is in the center section and will be inside the fuselage but need to pay more attention going forward.
Mike
  

( 92 KB | 0 Downloads )
Sagging_Tissue.jpg

"Skill comes by the constant repetition of familiar feats rather than by a few overbold attempts for which the performer is yet poorly prepared." Wilbur Wright
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11614
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #45 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:20am
Print Post  
Mike,
thanks for the picture...I just photoshopped it a bit, hope you don't mind...
Sky9pilot
  

( 72 KB | 1 Download )
Tissue_Tear_Test.jpg

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
New Builder
5 Star Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1243
Location: Amherstburg, Ontario, Canada
Joined: Dec 25th, 2016
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #44 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 8:10am
Print Post  
Dan - There are about as many ways to do the covering as there are people, however, there are discussions and not too many pics showing the discussion, so here is an example of the tear test on the corner of the tissue sample. The rather ragged tear is against the grain and the smoother one is with the grain and I usually mark the full sheet at that corner with an arrow reminding me which way it goes as we usually cut up the tissue and sometimes it gets lost. When you cover the wing with the tissue going chord-wise, you will have considerably more sag than if the tissue grain ran span-wise. Your tests will soon show you which method you want.
Mike
  

( 67 KB | 0 Downloads )
Tear_Test.jpg

"Skill comes by the constant repetition of familiar feats rather than by a few overbold attempts for which the performer is yet poorly prepared." Wilbur Wright
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #43 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 7:13pm
Print Post  
KF: thanks for that information! I'll know after a couple of test shots which method will work best for me.

The left-side formers are almost completely done. One of the half-height ones needs to be re-glued on the bottom, and I need to enlarge the slots for the landing gear fairings (they're too small). The cockpit sides got done, and I finally made an effort to straighten the warped wing spar. If it didn't straighten, I'll have to give it a submerging in boiling water.
  

( 87 KB | 0 Downloads )
A_Few_Champion_Parts.jpg

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kittyfritters
5 Star Member
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 675
Location: California
Joined: Feb 24th, 2011
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #42 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 1:31pm
Print Post  
Dan wrote on Oct 10th, 2019 at 12:04pm:
I understood that one wants to dampen the tissue and nothing more. One of those little pump spray bottles and some isopropyl alcohol have been added to my shopping list. As regards alcohol, is 70 or 91% preferred, or does it not make a difference?


You want 70%.  It's the water contained in the alcohol that does the shrinking.  The alcohol causes it to evaporate faster giving good taughtness but not taking all the "shrink" out of the tissue.  If you find a wrinkle at a corner after you shrink the tissue with alcohol you can wet a finger with water, rub it on the wrinkle and it usually the "shrink" remaining in the tissue will pull it out.  I only do this when I cover dry and then shrink.

When I cover "wet" I float the tissue in water in an aluminum roasting pan or a deep cookie sheet.  I pull the tissue out of the water, lay in on a terrycloth towel, then fold the towel over it to dry it to dampness while I put the glue on the framework.  I use permanent glue stick to adhere the tissue, applied only on the edges of the area I'm covering and to the parts of the frame where the tissue will later be cut for inserting another part or for window openings.  You have about 90 seconds to work the edges and pull the tissue or silkspan taught, then sit back and watch the miracle of "wet" covering shrinking to a beautiful finish.  Of course, the preparation of the frame must be pristine before you do this because as the damp covering shrinks it will reveal every divot and bump underneath.

Hope this helps,

KF
  

( 131 KB | 1 Download )
photo_2_16__001.JPG
( 140 KB | 2 Downloads )
photo_2_14__002.JPG

Qua sublata omnia praecepta legis
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #41 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 12:04pm
Print Post  
I understood that one wants to dampen the tissue and nothing more. One of those little pump spray bottles and some isopropyl alcohol have been added to my shopping list. As regards alcohol, is 70 or 91% preferred, or does it not make a difference?
  

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sky9pilot
Administrator
*****
Offline


Stick & Tissue

Posts: 11614
Location: Kelso, WA 98626 USA
Joined: Jan 9th, 2010
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #40 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 10:54am
Print Post  
Dan...AK's advice is right on.  Just a note additional, when we say applying the tissue wet, understand that what we mean is that the tissue is damp not dripping wet.  I use Isopropyl Alcohol in a used hairspray pump bottle my wife has finished using the hairspray.  I rinse with hot water and fill it with the alcohol.  This doesn't shrink the tissue as much a water does and with the hairspray atomizer it's easy to re-dampen the tissue if it starts to dry out before complete application.  It also activates the gluestick on the framework.
Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #39 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 9:33am
Print Post  
I will use a glue stick to adhere the tissue to the airframe. The question of wet or dry is one that I've yet to answer. However, I will pick up a glue stick, some sandpaper, and a sanding block very soon.

I definitely have enough scrap balsa to make a few small practice pieces. After the fuselage stringers and right wing are done, I will do that. Should I need more tissue, it's easy for me to acquire.

Thank you very much for the advice, alfakilo, and I'm happy to hear that everything is looking good!
  

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alfakilo
Global Moderator
****
Offline


Retired USAF and TWA.

Posts: 1198
Location: St Louis, MO
Joined: Jan 18th, 2018
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #38 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 8:46am
Print Post  
The side keel looks great!

The Guillows tissue is not the best nor is it the worst. Usually these kits were designed to be covered in the traditional way, meaning small pieces applied dry. The traditional adhesive was dope but these days we have a wide range of choices such as glue sticks, thinned white glue, even commercial products. Glue sticks are very popular, convenient to use, and work with both dry and wet tissue.

Typically, the individual components are covered first and then the model is assembled. Determine the direction of the tissue grain by making a small tear at one corner. Is the tear straight or does it sorta angle off sideways? Straight tears show the grain direction, use that direction to align the tissue with the longer dimension of the piece being covered. Opinions vary but usually this means wing/stab root to tip and nose to tail for the fuselage. For squarish shaped pieces, not sure that it really matters.

But before we start covering, be sure to spend some time sanding everything smooth to remove glue or wood that isn't flush. The tissue will stick to smooth surfaces much better than ones that are rough.

Finally, if this isn't too basic, make yourself a small frame out of scrap and practice covering it. It's a learning process and better to make a mistake where it doesn't matter!!
« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2019 at 12:02pm by alfakilo »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #37 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 7:51am
Print Post  
Former B3 didn't adhere to the central keel, so I threw caution to the wind. The side keel went in pretty easily, though will almost certainly require more glue and pressure at the tail. Former B2 will have to be re-positioned, this time with a landing gear fairing slip-fit to make sure it's properly positioned. A few more lessons learned and good progress made...I'm happy with the results so far.

At this point, I have to turn an eye toward covering and final details/assembly. Though it's likely not the best thing out there, I'll be covering the model with the kit-supplied tissue. I also am not a fan of the supplied two-piece wheels; they look out-of-scale and rather hokey. Can anyone suggest the best methods and processes when covering with the Guillow's tissue? Perhaps there is a set of wheels I can purchase (I lack the wherewithal and possibly tools needed to scratchbuild a pair) that will look better? If such wheels would give the Champion a bush-plane look, I'd have no objections.
  

( 99 KB | 0 Downloads )
Champion_Port_Side_Formers_Dang_Near_There.jpg

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan
3 Star Member
***
Offline


Navy veteran and A&P holder

Posts: 145
Location: Detroit Metro
Joined: Sep 5th, 2019
Re: Guillow's Aeronca Champion "85"
Reply #36 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:24pm
Print Post  
The idea I mentioned in the last post didn't quite work. I thought I came up with a nifty little Lego wing-support jig, but it kept walking around on the scrap balsa I set underneath it. However, the half-height formers are actually doing a pretty good job of staying in their intended positions without jigging or extra clamping.

Former B5 was a little off at the top, so it got adjusted. I intended to install former B2, but positioned the red Lego against the outline for former B3! However, I caught my goof, wiped the glue off B2, and installed B3 instead.

Earlier today, I checked side keel slot alignment with an inner 550 cord strand. It looked okay, and the side keel itself seemed to fit pretty well. I might have to take a dollar store emery board to a few slots, but it seems to be going much better than the PC-6's fuselage did!
  

( 102 KB | 2 Downloads )
Champion_Port_Side_Formers_Almost_Done.jpg

Building stick-and-tissue models is a hobby, not work.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Send TopicPrint