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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5 (Read 1940 times)
Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #41 - May 11th, 2021 at 10:10am
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One last note...a closing comment about the hero of my build, Sir Arthur M. Coningham.  Air Marshal Coningham retired from 30 years commissioned military service on 1 August 1947.  On 30 January 1948, as a passenger aboard the airliner G-AHNP Star Tiger he disappeared approximately 400 nautical miles NE of Bermuda.  Star Tiger was an Avro Tudor IV 4-engined passenger aircraft owned and operated by British South American Airways with 31 crew and passengers on board, enroute from Lisbon to Bermuda.  Although an extensive search was conducted, no trace was ever found.  Its disappearance is still unsolved...more Bermuda Triangle speculation.

Neal
  

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pb_guy
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #40 - May 11th, 2021 at 9:37am
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Yes, thank you Neo. The replica brings out some nice details. The engine noise must have been deafening to the pilot.
ian
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #39 - May 11th, 2021 at 8:32am
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Every time I view that video, Neo...puts a big smile on my face...it's just so beautiful.  The write-up was enjoyable as well...especially to see someone declare that "in retrospect" its poor reputation was undeserved.  How about the "tactful" way the author described the leRhone 9J as having its issues while installed on the DH-5 exceptional to other types...yeh.  It was a very good aircraft...and had it arrived at the front in a timely manner...its contributions would have significantly increased.  There are just too many suspect decisions prior to its deployment that lean toward ulterior motives and scandal (RAE).  Of the 5 squadrons that used it operationally, I believe there's a reason why No. 32 was so successful...and that was due to the qualifications of its personnel (ground and aircrew) and the quality of its leadership...plain and simple as that.  Thanks for the contribution, Neo.  Smiley

Alas...still no definitive detail concerning the bungees....  My suspicion is that New Zealand's version of the FAA would not allow a vintage bungee system to fly...and so the "balance cable" is scabbed on...with no operational bungees...that's just my suspicion. We have at least established that the replica has a full range of motion concerning the aileron throws.  Smiley  Whatever the case, that replica is an absolutely beautiful sight...especially in the air...marvelous!  I would love to know the climb-rate and service ceiling for the replica...as compared to the stated original test data.  I've read that the original specs were recorded while possibly using a four-bladed prop...daaaa...that would certainly effect climb-rate!

Thanks again, Neo! Smiley

Neal
  
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neoflight
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #38 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:35pm
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https://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2018/02/05/airco-dh-5-scout/

This link has video of restored dH5 in operation. Good representation of aileron operation.
Neo
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #37 - May 10th, 2021 at 6:37pm
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I'm going to defer to you, Ian...but I must admit that I still don't know where those bungees are.  I think what you're looking at looks remarkably like a standard aileron control cable system...top and bottom wings.  I'm confused by those cables running down to the fuselage decking behind the wing...not in my book of familiars.  Wink  In my search however, I did see a lot of photos showing ailerons with a full range of throw...up and down, whatever degree was set in.  No matter...only way to solve this mystery is for you to continue your build in miniature...and duplicate Dehavilland's system.  Wink Grin Smiley

I did find a photo of my modeling subject, A9300.  Smiley

Neal
  

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pb_guy
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #36 - May 10th, 2021 at 9:45am
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On page 5 of the Profile Publications of the DH5, it says "Many D.H.5's left the factory with rubber bungee return springs on the ailerons, but later a system of pulleys and spanwise balance cable was fitted." I think that I found the bungees on the upper wing ailerons on this pic from the top of page 7 of the profile publications.

  It looks like they fitted the lower wing with the standard aileron system, then they ran cables between ailerons to the top wing to force them to move in tandem, then the bungee 'spring' forced them back into 'neutral' when the downward force was relinquished. But with this system, the upper ailerons could only move between down and neutral. They couldn't go up because you can't push with a rope (Engineering axiom #2). That would lead to some side-slip on aileron activation.
ian
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #35 - May 10th, 2021 at 7:57am
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Sorry for the confusion...went back and re-read the description of the aileron system as presented in Profile Publications...got it straight in my head this time.  Roll Eyes

Strange system...the cable that runs length-wise on top of the upper wing exists only on the reproduction aircraft...it is the return cable normally contained within the wing that connects one aileron to the other.  It existed internally on the prototype only (with no bungee system).  Production aircraft dispensed with it altogether and used some sort of bungee cord system to "return the ailerons to neutral."  They appear to enter the lower side top wing at the rear cabane struts (probably connect to some sort of torque tubes)...cross and connect at the other end to the upper fuselage decking (behind the upper plane).  Now that should be clear as mud.  Lips Sealed

"Bungee" says STRETCH to me...which doesn't sound very precise...but it seems to have worked...if a bit convoluted.  Why not use the standard system?  Even the replica seems strange...why the return cable on the outside of the wing...unless the builders intended to use the original bungee system...then had a change of heart after the wing was already constructed?

I was intending to rig my DH-5...but the more I research it...the more head-scratching I have.

Neal
  

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pb_guy
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #34 - May 9th, 2021 at 11:32pm
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Are you referring to the bracing cables that run from the top of the fuselage to the upper part of the rear cabane struts? there is also a cable that runs vertically between the ailerons to help keep them in sync.
ian
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #33 - May 9th, 2021 at 9:42pm
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It did have a good roll rate...the ailerons were actually quite long.  One thing I haven't got figured out...had bungee chord affixed to the ailerons as some sort of return mechanism...looks like cables running to the fuselage top behind the upper wing.  Evaluation passed it all off as having good maneuverability..."easy to fly and land."

Go for it, Ian...10"ws is pretty small.  There's potential for a lot of weight in that cowling...maybe could pull a cowling and save some burden that way (weigh)....

Neal
  
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pb_guy
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #32 - May 9th, 2021 at 5:58pm
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I think the bug has bit me on this one. I just churned out the 2 fuselage sides for a start. Sized at 10" W/S. Interestingly, it has ailerons on both upper and lower wings. It should have had a good roll rate.
ian
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #31 - May 9th, 2021 at 4:02pm
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Thanks, Ian...you're correct...a fat peanut.  Grin  I've actually had this Midkiff plan printed out for years...at peanut scale on 11 x 17 paper...came from Flying Models back around 1998...something like that.  That's a lot of years sitting around waiting to come to life...and finally...it has.  If I had it to do over...I'd construct it as the prototype...flat-sided fuselage.

I've really enjoyed these last two builds...Morane Saulnier N and this DH-5.

Oh...no flight yet.  Wink

Neal
  

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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #30 - May 9th, 2021 at 11:46am
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Looks really nice. Has it take to the air yet? It is a pretty chunky peanut. I printed out a plan at only 10" W/S (the other plan from 1935 on OZ) to get an idea of it, and it still looks big!
ian
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #29 - May 9th, 2021 at 8:50am
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Thanks, Tom!  Smiley

There are those out there who believe that this model should be armed in order to be a proper representation...and so....a soda straw Vickers.  Wink Grin

     Date      Time      Unit      Aircraft      Opponent      Location
1      23 Jan 1917      1515      32      D.H.2      C (DESF) 1      Ervillers
2      11 Jul 1917      1530      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (OOC)      W of Gheluvelt
3      12 Jul 1917      1225      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (DES)      Gheluvelt
4      20 Jul 1917      0950      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      C (OOC) 2      Zandvoorde
5      20 Jul 1917      1015      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (OOC)      Zandvoorde
6      20 Jul 1917      1115      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (DES)      Wervicq
7      27 Jul 1917      0900      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros C (DES) 3      N of Polygon Wood
8      27 Jul 1917      2025      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (OOC)      E of Houthoulst Wood
9      30 Jul 1917      1900      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (OOC)      Langemarck
10      30 Jul 1917      1905      32      D.H.5 (A9179)      Albatros D.V (OOC)      Langemarck
11      29 Jul 1918      1130      92      S.E.5a (D6883)      C (DES) 4      N of Estaires
12      11 Aug 1918      1130      92      S.E.5a (D6883)      Fokker D.VII (OOC)      Nesle
13      11 Aug 1918      1130      92      S.E.5a (D6883)      Fokker D.VII (DES)      Nesle
14      05 Sep 1918      1100      92      S.E.5a (D6993)      Fokker D.VII (DES)      W of Cambrai


Of all the misinformation that I've read concerning the DH-5, this was one of the most confounding.  It was stated that DH-5 pilots were NOT to operate above 10,000 feet owing to the aircraft's poor performance at higher altitudes.  They were to depend upon other types to provide top cover.  So the first thing I read about Coningham is that he's leading DH-5 formations at 15,000 feet...providing...top cover!  Not only that...but he's doing it with a significant degree of success (witness his combat record, all against supposedly superior enemy aircraft)!  Still...practically every reference source one encounters repeats the same disinformation over and over and over again.  That was what I was referring to with my initial comment about lazy authors and pretty picture-books.  Again, the DH-5 was used operationally for a mere 8 months, during which it produced no less than as many ace fighter pilots.  The record tells quite a different story...that someone was "blowing smoke."

Airco D.H.5 Aces (8)
1      Australia      Coningham, Arthur      9
2      Canada      Beanlands, Bernard Paul Gascoigne      7
3      England      Pearson, William Reginald Guy      7
4      England      Winnicott, Russell      7
5      England      Tayler, St. Cyprian Churchill      6
6      England      Walter, Stephen Reginald Parke      6
7      Australia      Edwards, Herbert James      5
8      Ireland      Tyrrell, Walter Alexander      5

Neal
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Sky9pilot
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #28 - May 8th, 2021 at 7:47pm
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gorgeous!!!! Smiley
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #27 - May 8th, 2021 at 3:31pm
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Hi Terry...not only did it collect dirt...but it was an absolute science as to how much to use...that is, how much was too much!  Stuff was impossible to get out from the inside of a fuselage...and overtime...it became stickyyyyyyy.  Lips Sealed

Always nice to get some markings on a model.  This was supposed to be an easy job today...but ended up having to bring the printer back to life!

Neal
  

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