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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5 (Read 761 times)
terryman
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #26 - May 7th, 2021 at 8:47am
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More Castor oil connections here -  Do I recall correctly following plan instructions to lubricate the rubber motor with the messy stuff?  Would have been mid to late 60's Comet, Guillows or other common kit instructions of the era.  I remember it collected dirt like crazy on the motor.  I might even have the small green glass bottle from then along with Aero Gloss dope and such.

Lovely DH-5 and as usual interesting well researched history.

Terry
  
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neoflight
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #25 - May 6th, 2021 at 8:26pm
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A marvelous bit of work, Neal  Smiley I had a 1/8 scale rc model of the Dh5. Got near the covering point and then for whatever reason, stalled out and never finished. Honestly,  I believe the underlying reason was my concern not getting things balanced etc, and tip stalling to a premature death. Still have the plans. Bob Holman I think. Medicinal castor oil was a means to "loosen the baggage" as such. Russians used it in a very small and very potent water soluble pellet shot from an umbrella or cane tip when pressed to the leg. Pt would develop ricinoleic poisoning and if not given antidote would die within 3 days. But yes, it is still preferred by aeromodelers for their glow engines.
Again, beautiful job!
Neo
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #24 - May 6th, 2021 at 7:38pm
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Howdy, Neo!  "Salad oil"...I was just funnin', but then I'm certain you knew that...unless it be some really yummy salad oil, that is.  Wink Grin Grin Grin  Imagine some chemist way back in those days, going through all the different kinds of substances while looking for something that doesn't immediately break down when mixed with gasoline....castor oil?  Well...ok.  All I know is that there was a bottle of that stuff up in the cupboard that I'd occasionally be threatened with when I was a young kid.  Now if I'd have known that pilots were covering themselves with it...maybe that would have given me a different outlook (I doubt it.).  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

Ok...got that wing-tank in place...I'll be able to sleep tonight...I hope.  Smiley

Neal
  

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neoflight
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #23 - May 6th, 2021 at 4:46pm
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This found on Wikipedia:

" As the pilot was seated forward of the centre of gravity, the main fuel tank was behind the cockpit, below the oil tank. An auxiliary gravity fuel tank was fitted over the top mainplane, offset to the right."

Castor oil is an excellent lubricant. But salad oil? Not unless you want a scathing case of diarrhea  (which was problematic to that era of pilots. Breathing ricinoleic acid fumes from exhaust)
Very toxic in concentrated amt. The poison Ricin is derived from the innocuous bean. Having worked a number of years doing R&D for what was then HumKo, an edible fats maker, I learned they made a deal with WW2 Soviet Union to supply them with castor oil for their 2 cycle engines. So happened it was against then current trade laws to give aide in that respect. The company simply votated the oil and shipped as cooking shortening. Thus skirting around the authorities.
Neo
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #22 - May 6th, 2021 at 10:52am
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Thanks Ian and Mike....

I don't know...at first I thought maybe that little gravity tank had something to do with that confounded rotary engine...DH-2 had it as well.  Then I realized that the DH-4 with an in-line engine has it too...and to make it even more confusing...well, I thought maybe it was just an attempt to add range...then realized that big gap between the pilot and gunner on a DH-4 is filled with a very large fuel tank!  To top it all off (pardon the pun), later on the wing-mounted (or suspended) tank disappears altogether!  Maybe it was just an early design feature...maybe fuel systems became better.  Behind the DH-5 pilot is a large fuel tank and on top of that is a somewhat smaller casteroil tank.  Know the story of caster oil and the rotary engine?  Rotaries had what would have been called an "open oil system for lubrication," i.e., no oil system proper.  So lubricant was mixed with the fuel...and burnt off as fuel was combusted...not very efficient, obviously...also adversely effects power-output...like a 2-cycle engine...yes, a big weed-whacker.  Grin  Gasoline would have acted as a solvent with standard oil...but not quite as quickly with salad oil, i.e., oil of the castor bean.  Maybe I've over-simplified that? Cheesy Grin

Funny...DH-4 was a 1916 design that soldiered on to the very end of WWI, arguably the most important RFC/RAF recon aircraft of the war.  The DH-9 closed that fuel tank gap...but never achieved the performance and popularity of the DH-4.  The gap made communications very difficult between crew.

Neal
  

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MKelly
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #21 - May 6th, 2021 at 9:59am
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alfakilo wrote on May 5th, 2021 at 8:17am:
Everything's ready except me. I seem to find other things to do even if that is only taking a nap.



I'm pretty much in the same boat.  My P-47 bones have been together for almost a month, I find myself struggling to put in an hour or two a week on little things like the noseblock, prop and canopy.  Some of it must be springtime, with lots of family, household and automotive maintenance distractions.

Neal, the DH-5 looks great and has quite the interesting backstory.  Been enjoying following along with your build and discoveries.

Mike
  
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pb_guy
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #20 - May 6th, 2021 at 9:38am
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Neal, I was also wondering about that upper wing fuel tank. Perhaps in testing they ran into a fuel starvation problem. I was thinking that it would provide a gravity-feed to the engine, so that even in a steep climb, at slow speeds, it would provide the engine with fuel. The original didn't have that tank, so it must have been added later for some important reason, since all the ones at the Front had it. They could pump fuel to the upper tank, and then gravity-feed it to the engine. Or, it could be an auxiliary in case the primary system failed. Who knows. Those who could inform us are all gone now.
ian
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #19 - May 6th, 2021 at 9:21am
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I've got to get a life...I woke up in the middle of the night, my mind being tormented by having completely overlooked that upper-wing-mounted fuel tank!  I was trying to create it out of cardstock and things weren't going as planned.  So my eyes opened...and in that instant I decided...wood...I'll carve it.  Wink Grin  I'm not at all certain why it was up there anyway, since the main tank is large and directly behind the pilot...a pressurized feed...wind-driven air-pump mounted on the lg strut.

Here's something of interest, at least to me...Geoffrey DE Havilland was an experienced and accomplished aircraft designer...of course, who had just completed design of the all-important DH-4...which was in-service to the War's end.  Could it be that RAE didn't want any more dissipation of effort away from recon-bombing design?  Does one really believe that DE Havilland would take a wild guess at a design such as the DH-5?  In fact...was the DH-5 a "wild guess?"

I was looking over that pic of the DH-5 prototype...really, a very attractive design.  I wonder what it would have been with an effective power-plant?  As it was...it was the first British aircraft designed to utilize Vickers, belt-fed, interrupter gear-equipped machine gun...hardly revolutionary by the time it belatedly got to the front.  Also note...aircraft has wing fillets!

The flying replica in New Zealand is equipped with a Lycoming engine.  I've searched...can't find performance specs for the recreation...but it does fly nicely beside a Tiger Moth.  The replica also differs from the original in having a welded-steel tube fuselage as opposed to the traditional wooden-wire-braced box.  Original was strong...replica even stronger...with a better engine.

Neal
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #18 - May 5th, 2021 at 11:41am
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It is absolutely amazing the way Coningham and Park seemed to have been following the same script!  Not only that, but their military service concluded at practically the same time!  There are always heroes...always will be...it's just that most are un-sung...people who step to the front of a situation and take the lead...especially when it's at their own peril.

I would have thought this pandemic situation would have given us all more time for this hobby...but maybe not.  I do know that every time I look for building materials...seems they are increasingly less available.  That's really kind of amusing...takes me back where I came from...when I was a kid...forever making whatever was at hand do the job.  I'm still prone to do that...so nothing's really changed in that regard.  I do build smaller now...more bang for the buck.  Grin

Love this hobby....  Take your time friends...build as you're inspired.  I seem to be looking for anything to do except what I should be doing.  Wink  Right now...lately...I'm turning this DH-5 over and over...looking at it at different angles in various light n' shadow...letting my imagination go, "So that's what this bird looked like!"  Remember when you did that as a kid...laying in the grass...holding that model up against the beautiful sky....

Thanks, Friends.

Neal
  
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Rekitus Maximus
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #17 - May 5th, 2021 at 11:02am
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I can state that a lot of our world is in transitions from recent events.
as such things like fixing the faucet and painting the mullions
are on the 'time to get that done' list.

I was doing a lot of recovery maintenance  like that
it eats into the build time.

I expect in about a year I'll have a lot more free time.
right now, I am trying to learn how you all build such nice models.


this DH-5  is another of the examples I hope I can follow. 

victor
  

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alfakilo
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2021 at 8:17am
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Kerak wrote on May 4th, 2021 at 10:47am:
...Just a question...has everyone died around here?  I used to hear the bustle of hammers and saws....


If nothing else, posts have slowed down. Our friends over at HPA have seen the same. Not sure why.

I've got the Scarlet Tanager ready for covering. The really nice scarlet tissue arrived from EB, My airbrush is ready. Everything's ready except me. I seem to find other things to do even if that is only taking a nap. Maybe Covid and politics have driven enthusiasm away.
  
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toulouse
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #15 - May 4th, 2021 at 10:01pm
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Hi Kerak,

I am enjoying this build and its history, as I do all of your builds.  Smiley Smiley Smiley

As a New Zealander I am aware of Coningham. 

Another NZ kiwi reluctant hero with a similar early Anzac, RFC background is Keith Park.  However Sir Keith's father was a University Professor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Park
  
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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #14 - May 4th, 2021 at 5:20pm
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Move over Beech...THE STAGGERWING has arrived.  Nothing but detail remains....  Is this Sunday?

Neal
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #13 - May 4th, 2021 at 10:47am
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merrily we roll along...roughed in...wing-mounting was a bear this time...I think because that wing is staggered a considerable distance backward...mounted the outer wing struts first...then the cabanes.  Usually I go the other way around....

Neal

Just a question...has everyone died around here?  I used to hear the bustle of hammers and saws....
  

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Kerak
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Re: A Reluctant Hero...the Airco DH-5
Reply #12 - May 3rd, 2021 at 10:50am
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Thanks, Ian...covering a model is always an adventure for me...fortunately, one that has gotten better over time.  Grin

I must confess that until this build project...I had never heard of Sir Arthur Coningham!  I mean, who dwells upon those oh-so-important staff personnel in the background of a story?  This is a perfect example of a hobby that never ceases to entertain and educate at the same time.  Smiley  Sir Arthur's story is inspirational...a boy who literally pulls himself up by his own "bootstraps" and goes on to great things in life. Does anyone pay attention to such things now-a-days?  Are there such people as heroes any more?  Here's something amusing...when I was a boy, I was convinced that General Eisenhower and my father looked alike...maybe the smile, or the scowl...whatever it was...I really believed they looked alike.  In my mind's eye...they still do.  Heroes....

Neal
  

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