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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Esaki shrinkge (Read 3989 times)
GeoffinIN
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 5:22pm
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Many thanks, all!  I guess I'll have to get acquainted with pins again since I have a magnetic building board.

Now, off to take a shower with a Rearwin Speedster wing... Smiley

Geoff

Edit:  Steam and some well-placed weights while drying did the trick!  Back to proper washout AND wrinkle free!  Wheeee!
« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2016 at 5:04pm by GeoffinIN »  
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applehoney
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 1:02pm
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I just soak the tissue with a wet Kleenex and then pin down the panel in a similar manner.
  
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staubkorb
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 6:27am
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I picked up a "plant moisturizer" from the garden shop.  the spray is very fine when the trigger is pulled sharply and I spray from a distance of at least 20 ".  I have the best results using STEAM, tho (use mittens when steaming!) - or, take the part with you into the bathroom while you take a nice hot shower (NOTE: into the shower with the part NOT!).  Pin the part down onto shims (allows air circulation to both sides), allowing for any washin/out you might intend to utilize and allow to thoroughly dry/cure for a couple of days and again after doping.

One reason (IMHO, one of the MOST important) for potato chips can be that the cuts in the wood parts were/are not square, or not quite well fitted.  The resulting glue bridge softens during the doping process (acetone based glue) or when wetted for shrinking (white/alipathic glue) allowing the drying/curing process to pull the parts into "full contact".

Any cut using common hobby tools do not cut perfectly square due to the angle of the cutting edge.  This is one reason that thin, double-edged razor blades are preferred - they are so thin that the cutting bevels are nearly zero (but they are still there!).
  

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staubkorb
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 6:26am
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I picked up a "plant moisturizer" from the garden shop.  the spray is very fine when the trigger is pulled sharply and I spray from a distance of at least 20 ".  I have the best results using STEAM, tho (use mittens when steaming!) - or, take the part with you into the bathroom while you take a nice hot shower (NOTE: into the shower with the part NOT!).  Pin the part down onto shims (allows air circulation to both sides), allowing for any washin/out you might intend to utilize and allow to thoroughly dry/cure for a couple of days and again after doping.

One reason (IMHO, one of the MOST important) for potato chips can be that the cuts in the wood parts were/are not square, or not quite well fitted.  The resulting glue bridge softens during the doping process (acetone based glue) or when wetted for shrinking (white/alipathic glue) allowing the drying/curing process to pull the parts into "full contact".

Any cut using common hobby tools do not cut perfectly square due to the angle of the cutting edge.  This is one reason that thin, double-edged razor blades are preferred - they are so thin that the cutting bevels are nearly zero (but they are still there!).
  

WWWoFF
Wonderful Wacky World of Free Flight
(with a bit of rc thrown in for giggles)

Comparing Spammers to a pile of organic waste is an insult to the organic waste!
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Sky9pilot
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #6 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 7:26pm
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To piggy back off Bob's post...I use the Dollar Store Pump Hair Spray Bottle for my atomizer.  Actually it's a used one the wifey has finished.  I try to get it before it's completely empty so it doesn't dry inside the pump.  I then run hot water through it to flush it out good.  But for just a buck you could just buy one and empty it out and then flush it good with hot water and then refill with Isopropyl Alcohol from the Dollar Store.  It's already diluted with some water.  But some add a bit more water to the alcohol.  The water increases the shrinkage in the tissue.
Tom
  

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Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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Sky9pilot
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #5 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 7:25pm
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To piggy back off Bob's post...I use the Dollar Store Pump Hair Spray Bottle for my atomizer.  Actually it's a used one the wifey has finished.  I try to get it before it's completely empty so it doesn't dry inside the pump.  I then run hot water through it to flush it out good.  But for just a buck you could just buy one and empty it out and then flush it good with hot water and then refill with Isopropyl Alcohol from the Dollar Store.  It's already diluted with some water.  But some add a bit more water to the alcohol.  The water increases the shrinkage in the tissue.
Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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bigrip74
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #4 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 6:53pm
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GeoffinIN, the simple green bottle may do the trick just don't spray much water on the model. Tom has some good suggestions.

Oh! I found a good spray bottle at the $1 store.

Bob
  
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Sky9pilot
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #3 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 5:09pm
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GeoffinIN,
Are you pinning the wet tissue down for drying?  Even when I build in the washout, I always pin down the wing panel that is wet till it dries!  with shims to hold the desired washout that was built in!  On empennages built out of 1/16" sq balsa I usually pre-shrink the tissue before mounting it on the horizontal and vertical stabs.  I then use isopropyl alcohol to finish shrinking the tissue.  If it needs to shrink more!

In preshrinking I use an old picture frame to mount the tissue before shrinking.  Or if I'm lazy I tape it all round onto the cutting mat and spritz it and then let it set over night to dry and shrink. 

I generally add some diagonal 1/16" sq balsa to try to avoid the potato chip empennage from happening. 
Tom
  

If God is your Co-pilot...switch seats...
Your attitude will determine your altitude!- John Maxwell
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Jn 8:32
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GeoffinIN
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #2 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 5:00pm
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Thanks for the reply, Bob.

The first one I built was a 24" span Messerschmitt Bf108 based on the Dave Rees design study in the HPA archives.  The wing and fuselage have remained stable for a year and a half, but the tail is now redolent of something from Frito-Lay.  Then I built a Saab J29 for micro EDF based on an enlarged (17" span) Jetex design by Mike Stuart.  I covered it with silver Esaki and it looked like it had leprosy.  Right now I have just finished covering an Earl Stahl designed Rearwin Speedster whose wing started out with about 3° washout but overnight went to ten °.  I am NOT amused!

I don't have a proper atomizer bottle; I use a Simple Green bottle which does not fully atomize but it's the best I can find.
  
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bigrip74
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Re: Esaki shrinkge
Reply #1 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 12:37pm
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GeoffinIN, hello!

It all depends on the size and construction of the airplane that you need to cover. Some description would help those here to give the advice that will help you on wetting Esaki.

Do you have an atomizer bottle?

Bob
  
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GeoffinIN
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Esaki shrinkge
Dec 3rd, 2016 at 12:27pm
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Although I built many models in my youth (1950s-1960s) I used the flimsy tissue supplied with the kits of those days, which was nothing like as strong as Esaki.  Now that I've gotten back into stick and tissue models I'm having to learn new techniques.  Would some of you experienced folks tell me how I figure when to pre-shrink Esaki, when to apply it wet, and when to wet it after application?  I'm getting tired of wasting tissue building potato chips! Embarrassed
  
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